Wednesday Open Thread
September 28, 2011 6:50 AM - BoerumHillScott

781 comments
September 28, 2011 7:22 AM - BoerumHillScott
Last night we saw the new musical "Fucking Hipsters!" being put on by the New York Musical Theater Festival.
It's been a while since I have laughed so hard - I really needed that.
Edited at September 28, 2011 7:22 AM
#1
September 28, 2011 7:34 AM - DeadCatBounce
Sounds like a great evening Scott. Will check it out. Thx.

When I left for work at 5am this morning, there was a serious car accident on Franklin and Eastern Pkwy. Driver ran on to the sidewalk and smashed into a street pole. Firemen were cutting the car up to get the driver out.
#2
September 28, 2011 7:41 AM - rf
Someone tell Rob that Yom Kippur comes out on Saturday this year--no day off.
#3
September 28, 2011 7:53 AM - dibs
Harsh words for Obama from Christie!!!! Very well put too.

“We continue to wait and hope that our president will finally stop being a bystander in the Oval Office,” Christie said. “We hope that he will shake off the paralysis that has made it impossible for him to take on the really big things that are obvious to all Americans.”
The governor’s address, carried live by Fox News and C- SPAN, was his most prominent opportunity yet to expand his influence in national politics. He used it to blast politicians in both parties for “a Congress at war with itself because they are unwilling to leave campaign-style politics at the Capitol’s door.”
Christie, who was interrupted several times by applause from the Reagan Library audience, called Obama “one of the dividers.”
“Insisting that we must tax and take and demonize those who have already achieved the American Dream -- that may turn out to be a good re-election strategy for President Obama, but is a demoralizing message for America,” Christie said.

#4
September 28, 2011 7:55 AM - jessibaby
If anyone is bored, the brooklynheightsblog.com coverage of Janes Carousel is pretty amusing. There's a debate over whether it's proper to charge $2 a ride when poor kids live in the Farragut Houses.
#5
September 28, 2011 7:59 AM - dibs
Well, there could be a tiered pricing system similar to the one the Berkeley Republicans introduced. It would depend upon your address.
#6
September 28, 2011 8:12 AM - petebklyn
"The governor’s address, carried live by Fox News " -- no surprise there.
#7
September 28, 2011 8:14 AM - dibs
Maybe instead of criticizing the coverage you might address Obama's shortcomings, Pete.
#8
September 28, 2011 8:29 AM - Deleted
Christie should provide his cholesterol score. Who wants to elect someone to a stressful job that might keel over and die?
#9
September 28, 2011 8:34 AM - petebklyn
Christie is a master at demonizing. Ironic he criticizes others for it.
Edited at September 28, 2011 8:34 AM
#10
September 28, 2011 8:36 AM - dibs
Yes, and Obama is doing soooooo well.
#11
September 28, 2011 8:42 AM - cobblehiller
GM,
Christie wouldn't fare well. He appeals in the sense that he's no nonesense, but beyond that I don't see it.
He's already been hospitalized at least once recently, no?

DIBS, I missed your HOTD! Just catching up—looks wonderful! How's it going? Nibbles?
#12
September 28, 2011 8:45 AM - Slopefarm
Nice start to the morning. Nice to see everyone making amends in advance of the High Holidays.

I want to wish L'shana Tova to cobble/ditmas and all the other Jewish denizens of the OT.
#13
September 28, 2011 8:46 AM - dibs
Lots of activity, Cobble.

he was in the hospital for a day for asthma.

Anything's better than what we have now
Edited at September 28, 2011 8:46 AM
#14
September 28, 2011 8:47 AM - dibs
What about me, Slopey??? I'm Jewish by injection.
Edited at September 28, 2011 8:47 AM
#15
September 28, 2011 8:48 AM - cobblehiller
Thank you, Slopey, and to you and yours! I'll be purging/contemplating while I pack my way through the holidays!
Edited at September 28, 2011 8:48 AM
#16
September 28, 2011 8:49 AM - Arkady
Beware false messiahs! You all sound about Christie the way some of us did about Obama. Christie's too heavy to be able to walk on water.
#17
September 28, 2011 8:53 AM - dibs
Arkady, right now we need ballast to keep a faltering ship on even keel. Obama's a lightweight.
#18
September 28, 2011 8:58 AM - More4Less
Just as I could get excited with Obama during the campaign, I can get exciting with Christie. The current batch (incl Obama) is lesser evil race - not the feeling I had in mind as country searches for someone to enact some positive change.
#19
September 28, 2011 8:59 AM - jessibaby
Great slogan, arkady. But I don't know, "hope" is a lot more subject to interpretation than "get the hell off the beach."

#20
September 28, 2011 9:00 AM - More4Less
am very disappointed at Christie for not entering the race - ie if you view current leadership lacking, step up to the plate and help your country man; don't fucking wait 4 more yrs
#21
September 28, 2011 9:00 AM - jessibaby
Obama's policies with christie's backbone, there's something I could get into.
#22
September 28, 2011 9:02 AM - More4Less
can't wait to see the kindle tablet. praying it comes with subsidized 3G wifi
#23
September 28, 2011 9:04 AM - jessibaby
Enough with the devices! What possibly could all of the sheep be convinced they need next.
#24
September 28, 2011 9:04 AM - cobblehiller
I'm wondering if the Kindle things get ripped off at anywhere near the same rate as the iPads.
#25
September 28, 2011 9:04 AM - jessibaby
^^^sorry for unpatriotic statement.
#26
September 28, 2011 9:05 AM - cobblehiller
I like books. I don't need all these toys. I'm a very late adopter when it comes to this stuff.
#27
September 28, 2011 9:05 AM - More4Less
am giddy that my Mets' incompetence / impotence in blowing 7 game lead and miss playoff will now likely be eclipse by bigger failings by Sox and Braves - ie a good example of celebrating "lesser Evil"
#28
September 28, 2011 9:05 AM - dibs
jessi, America is about innovation. It's what makes this economy superior to the rest of the world.
#29
September 28, 2011 9:06 AM - cobblehiller
"^^^sorry for unpatriotic statement."

Snort! Yes, that was VERY un-PC of you! We're a consumer culture, remember! ; )
#30
September 28, 2011 9:06 AM - BoerumHillScott
I would guess the current kindle does not get stolen nearly as much because the retail value is 1/3 the iPads.
There is the same amount of effort and risk steal either, so why go with the cheap one when both are easy to find?
#31
September 28, 2011 9:08 AM - dibs
I suspect most of the people doing the stealing can't actually read either, so why bother with a Kindle.
#32
September 28, 2011 9:09 AM - More4Less
JB, "iSheep" is exclusive term to juicy fruit products.

if kindle tablet has subsidized good wifi connectivity, I would be tempted to load google voice onto it and test it as replacement for my cellphone. 7" is a good portable/mobile size.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:09 AM
#33
September 28, 2011 9:09 AM - jessibaby
I'm all for innovation, I just can't get into someone super-sizing my iPhone and making Americans feel unhip for not having another version, that to my eye carries no innovation, of the same thing.
#34
September 28, 2011 9:10 AM - dibs
m4l, 7" is not what one wants for a cellphone replacement. 7" is good for other things though.
#35
September 28, 2011 9:11 AM - jessibaby
What do u do when in areas without wifi? How does that kindle replace a cell phone?
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:11 AM
#36
September 28, 2011 9:11 AM - dibs
Do all you Jews have to log off at sunset today????
#37
September 28, 2011 9:12 AM - dibs
I'm also communicationg with a buyer through his lawyer. I suspect that will come to a screaching halt for the next 2 days!!!!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:12 AM
#38
September 28, 2011 9:15 AM - Slopefarm
LOL, dibs. I thought Jews weren't your type. Besides, conversion isn't that easy. I know some of you goys are big fans of baptism, but it takes mroe than a little liquid to make one a Jew.

Reminds me: I was once on a camp trip to Quebec and stayed for a few days with a family that had a dairy farm. They took me to church on Sunday and I really freaked out about the holy water. I thought if I touched it, g-d would think I was converting or something, but if I didn't, my hosts (the family, not THAT host) would be upset. So I pretended to touch the water but didn't.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:15 AM
#39
September 28, 2011 9:15 AM - jessibaby
It's the new year, not the sabbath, so no restriction on power, I don't think. Lots if jewish lawyers will be off the grid, though - they will blame their mothers for it.
#40
September 28, 2011 9:17 AM - Slopefarm
Yes, dibs, expect to hear nothing after 3pm today from the lawyer until Monday (Friday if he is reform/nonobservant).
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:17 AM
#41
September 28, 2011 9:17 AM - boerumresident
CH -- congrats on finding a new place!
#42
September 28, 2011 9:20 AM - More4Less
DIBS, believe I can pair up a bluetooth ear piece or one of those headphone plug-in's into the tablet (ie I aint holding the damn tablet next to my ears - that would make me look idiotic).

JB, when I say wifi - it's the paid svcs connectivity thru the phone companies (ie not the wifi's via retail stores, etc). so am thinking something like Clear's 4G wireless Network, or the phone companies' fancy 4G LTE networks,... these svc are predominantly in big cities so yeah, I would be exposed if in suburbs and/or on some highways, etc. but for my cheap ass, the compromises might be worth the savings
#43
September 28, 2011 9:21 AM - Biff Champion
"JB, "iSheep" is exclusive term to juicy fruit products."

Juicy Fruit - Filthiest commercial from the 1970's

"Take a sniff, pull it ouuuuuuut. The taste is gonna move ya when you pop it in your mouth."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSt3dAqBo0o
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:21 AM
#44
September 28, 2011 9:21 AM - denton
In the last coupla months I bought both a Kindle (matching pair for Mrs. D) and a Samsung Galaxy tablet.
#45
September 28, 2011 9:22 AM - denton
"If anyone is bored, the brooklynheightsblog.com coverage of Janes Carousel is pretty amusing. There's a debate over whether it's proper to charge $2 a ride when poor kids live in the Farragut Houses."

I was pretty sure carousel free to younger kids, no? They've charged Harlem kids to get on the carousel in Central Park, why should this be different?
#46
September 28, 2011 9:22 AM - Biff Champion
"Get your ski's shined up..."

Euphemism?
#47
September 28, 2011 9:22 AM - dibs
So m4l is both a brownie whore and a gadget whore????
#48
September 28, 2011 9:24 AM - cobblehiller
Thanks, BR! I actually have moments where I'm almost excited. ; )
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:24 AM
#49
September 28, 2011 9:25 AM - More4Less
DIBS, not gadget whore. cheap ass who would consider lots of stuff to save some bucks. yo if that idea works, I save 70-80 per month. I aint making banker money so that's a lot of scratch to me
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:25 AM
#50
September 28, 2011 9:25 AM - dibs
Thanks, BR! I actually have moments where I'm almost excited. ; )

How could anyone actually tell????
#51
September 28, 2011 9:26 AM - Biff Champion
Is Waldbaum's a good grocery store? There's one in Southampton and I was thinking of picking up stuff there for the weekend vs. Trader Joe's tonight.
#52
September 28, 2011 9:27 AM - jessibaby
Yeah, Denton - free to those under three and shorter than 42 inches or something.
One of the arguments goes, Jane Walentas' non-profit has stepped up to pay operating costs/maintenance, etc for thirty years so why should we help them - the poor kid thing is just an excuse. Strange folks in BK Heights.
#53
September 28, 2011 9:29 AM - dibs
Biff, I think the Waldbaums in Bucks County is the one that all my neighbors rave about. I have not been yet.
#54
September 28, 2011 9:31 AM - Biff Champion
Thanks DIBS. There's also a Citarella out there, but I prefer to go to a place I haven't been before and I think people here have said good things about Waldbaum's.
#55
September 28, 2011 9:31 AM - Slopefarm
Not sure if this is stil true, but, historically, Waldbaum's specialized in having large kosher sections. An all purpose supermarket but with an emphasis on observant jewish clientele. Surprised there's one in Bucks Co.
#56
September 28, 2011 9:32 AM - DeLepp
tears, I'll be replacing my 6 year old flip phone today as it has finally crapped out. With that phone I've never missed a meet up for cocktails or dinner. Will be getting a free "dumb" phone. Apple can kiss my lily white ass.
#57
September 28, 2011 9:32 AM - dibs
Sorry, Biff. I think that was Wegman's not Waldbaums.
#58
September 28, 2011 9:33 AM - jessibaby
I feel like ET was into Waldbaums, wouldn't she post their ice cream specials? Or is that another market? DH knows about the one on Long Island.
#59
September 28, 2011 9:34 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Someone tell Rob that Yom Kippur comes out on Saturday this year--no day off.

hmm. that's really weird as i got an email saying we had off lol. i must go recheck. maybe we have that friday off. we have tomorrow off tho definitely yay!

*rob*

#60
September 28, 2011 9:34 AM - dibs
Right, Slopey. No Waldbaum's in PA. it was Wegman's
#61
September 28, 2011 9:34 AM - Arkady
Citarella's expensive too.
JB - You're right about 3 & under 42" but also must be accompanied by paying adult.
#62
September 28, 2011 9:35 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
ah found it, i was right

"Hello,



The office will be closed this Thursday for Rosh Hashanah. In addition, you will have the choice of taking either Friday Oct. 7 (start of Yom Kippur) or Monday Oct. 10 (Columbus Day) as a holiday.



Please let me know your choices as soon as possible."



#63
September 28, 2011 9:35 AM - DeLepp
wadlbaums is OK in SH. More imporatnt is that there is a very good liquor store across the lane.
#64
September 28, 2011 9:35 AM - cobblehiller
"How could anyone actually tell????"

It's easy...my mood changes hourly, for arguments sake we'll just say even hours are the 'crying' hours, and odd hours are the 'almost excited' hours. So any hour where I am not actually 'crying/sad' about the move can be interpreted as an hour where I may be 'almost excited'. There...can you tell now? : P
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:35 AM
#65
September 28, 2011 9:36 AM - Slopefarm
Yeah, I would imagine that there are more Jews in Bucks Co. who attend Quaker meeting than observe kashrut.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:36 AM
#66
September 28, 2011 9:37 AM - BoerumHillScott
I don't have any issues with the carousels charging, but I think instead of a $2 cost, a $4 dollar suggested cost could net them the same amount of money while making it easier for poor kids to ride it.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:38 AM
#67
September 28, 2011 9:39 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
There's a debate over whether it's proper to charge $2 a ride when poor kids live in the Farragut Houses.

i kinda agree. but i hate that stupid carousel vanity project with every fiber of my being to begin with. it's gotta be the most hideous thing dotting the waterfront. if i i had expensive condos views that were ruined by that thing i'd be sniping at it from my rooftop daily until every eyeball on those fugly prancing bougeous ponies was shot out.



*rob*

#68
September 28, 2011 9:40 AM - dibs
rob is apparently afraid of horses too
#69
September 28, 2011 9:42 AM - Arkady
Or he never managed to snag the brass ring.
#70
September 28, 2011 9:43 AM - jessibaby
Very nice Wegmans in the Lehigh Valley.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:43 AM
#71
September 28, 2011 9:44 AM - rf
Waldbaum's is owned by A&P, as is Pathmark. Standard chain supermarket, nothing special.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:44 AM
#72
September 28, 2011 9:44 AM - Slopefarm
bougeous? (I take it he means bourgeois, but who ever really knows) rob's defending the views of expensive co-op owners (many of whom would likely be, um, how you say, moonfaces) and he's calling the horses bougeous?
[Cue Laura Petrie]
#73
September 28, 2011 9:46 AM - Slopefarm
Amazing how the marest thing will set rob off on a rant.
#74
September 28, 2011 9:47 AM - cobblehiller
Rob, you really really really should not be speaking about being violent on the internet. Really.
#75
September 28, 2011 9:47 AM - dibs
rob's only interested in feeding at the trough of the rest of society
#76
September 28, 2011 9:48 AM - Biff Champion
Thanks all. I must have been thinking of Wegman's. Feh....
#77
September 28, 2011 9:49 AM - dibs
As predicted, it looks like the retail crowd is chasing AMZN today. It's going t have a good run but the rest of us know that they will lose $$$ on their new iPad
#78
September 28, 2011 9:49 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
a $4 dollar suggested cost could net them the same amount of money while making it easier for poor kids to ride it.

yeah right. rich people are cheap as fuck. ever been to the Met?

*rob*

#79
September 28, 2011 9:49 AM - Biff Champion
Maybe I should stop at Stew Leonard's on the way instead.

I <3 SLs
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:49 AM
#80
September 28, 2011 9:50 AM - cobblehiller
BH just called. Lease is signed. It's official.

LL is a very together old guy who actually built the building in 1959, one of, if not his first. BH says he owns a ton of Canarsie apt. buildings, too. And he was charming and nice. Said he wants us to be happy and stay a long time, and we can upgrade to a 2-bedroom when we want/can. I feel somewhat cheered/reassured by this news.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:50 AM
#81
September 28, 2011 9:50 AM - Biff Champion
"ever been to the Met?"

HAVE YOU?? And I don't mean via the Internet.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:51 AM
#82
September 28, 2011 9:51 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Rob, you really really really should not be speaking about being violent on the internet. Really.

it's vandalism, not violence. sorry i just dont like carousels. especially out in the open like that.


*rob*

#83
September 28, 2011 9:52 AM - Biff Champion
Or is that the Intermet?
#84
September 28, 2011 9:52 AM - jessibaby
Rob, I'd think you'd be happy that the carousel at least doesnt ban solo adult riders.
everytime you complain about the pier 6 water attractions, I lmao thinking of you frolicking in an area designed for 8 year olds.
#85
September 28, 2011 9:54 AM - Biff Champion
Aren't the kids' Pier 6 frolicking areas like many other NYC parks, whereby adults without children aren't allowed?
#86
September 28, 2011 9:55 AM - Biff Champion
SQOTD:

How much deeper would the ocean be if sponges didn't grow in it?
#87
September 28, 2011 9:56 AM - cobblehiller
Biff, are you staying with friends or renting a place in Southampton? Long weekend? In either case, it sounds fun!
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:56 AM
#88
September 28, 2011 9:56 AM - Slopefarm
Yes, carousels, the ride that dare not speak its name. Definitely should not be out in the open, but only in secret, behind closed doors, so that no one will know.

http://www.lyricstime.com/the-hollies-on-a-carousel-lyrics.html
#89
September 28, 2011 9:57 AM - Deleted
Waldbaum's used to be the quintissential supermarket in every Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn and NYC. At that time, however, it was still owned by the Waldbaum family.
#90
September 28, 2011 9:58 AM - denton
it's all right cobble, everyone knows rob can't afford a gun _or_ a place in Dumbo.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:58 AM
#91
September 28, 2011 9:58 AM - Deleted
Other NYC supermarket chains that have bitten the dust: Packer's, Spinner's and Bohack's.
#92
September 28, 2011 9:58 AM - Biff Champion
I like the pic in the Wednesday Links thread on Brownstoner. Looks like a view high up from a building around Clinton between Montague and Remsen. I thought that's where the new ugly rental building is. Can it be from there? Or is it on the West side of Clinton.
#93
September 28, 2011 10:00 AM - Biff Champion
"Packer's, Spinner's and Bohack's."

How do packers and spinners compare to tops, bottoms and versatiles?


#94
September 28, 2011 10:01 AM - More4Less
$199 Kindle Fire - blazing!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:01 AM
#95
September 28, 2011 10:02 AM - Biff Champion
Cobble, the place is actually closer to Bridgehampton. It's a friend's place.

Congrats again on the apartment. I'm sure before long you'll grow to love the new area and sometimes a change of scenery can be a very good thing in the long run!
#96
September 28, 2011 10:03 AM - ij
Scott,

Did you recognize anyone on the subway platform last night? You had a very puzzled look on your face when I waved at you, but you very politely said "Hi."
#97
September 28, 2011 10:05 AM - Deleted
hah biff - my sister used to work at that waldbaums
#98
September 28, 2011 10:05 AM - Biff Champion
I'm not hating, but just wondering why on Brownstoner 3 of the top 5 threads listed under "Most Commented This Week" are actually threads from last week. Is it a rolling 7 days that this is based on or is this just another Blankslate bug?
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:05 AM
#99
September 28, 2011 10:05 AM - Deleted
alec baldwin shops there and he's looking pretty well fed nowadays, so it's prolly ok
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:05 AM
September 28, 2011 10:07 AM - denton
I used to work at Sloans, and Daitch Shopwell. I think they are gone. Also, Finast and Pioneer come to mind.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:07 AM
September 28, 2011 10:07 AM - BoerumHillScott
Jester, I realized that was you after Wendy and I walked by.
Sorry for not recognizing you at first.
September 28, 2011 10:08 AM - Deleted
The Baldwin broters grew up in Masspequa, LI. My wife's uncle - who lives there - was Alec Baldwin's little league coach. How's that for a connection!!
September 28, 2011 10:09 AM - Biff Champion
"alec baldwin shops there and he's looking pretty well fed nowadays, so it's prolly ok"

DH, haha. I just hope I get there before Alec goes and empties the shelves.
September 28, 2011 10:11 AM - ij
No worries, Scott! Glad you had a fun night out.

The Waldbaum's in Canarsie is pretty nice.
September 28, 2011 10:13 AM - Deleted
alec baldwin's father was my dad's high school football coach. people always "wondered" about alec.
September 28, 2011 10:13 AM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Hey, anybody here have some Morrissey and/or Smiths cds they'd like to loan me? I have new obsession :-)
September 28, 2011 10:13 AM - DeLepp
biff, perfect time to be in BH(nh). Less crowds and the ghastly real housewives of nyc won' t be there.
September 28, 2011 10:13 AM - More4Less
Biff, to be safe, you should bring along some of your choice pickles
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:13 AM
September 28, 2011 10:14 AM - DeLepp
snappy, yes r u into skinny whiny guys now?
September 28, 2011 10:15 AM - InsertSnappyNameHere
LOL, yes Delepp!
September 28, 2011 10:16 AM - jessibaby
Am I crazy or are the hamptons the most overrated beach ever? Or do you have to go to a fancy home to appreciate? I stayed in a lovely hotel in Amagansett but wasn't wowed at all. Food in Southhampton was pretty dreadful - Mr Chows?
September 28, 2011 10:17 AM - dibs
Bigger problem, jessi, is that it's full of new Yorkers!!!!!!!
September 28, 2011 10:17 AM - InsertSnappyNameHere
I've stayed in a house on Easthampton and on Southhampton before. Wasn't impressed. But then again, I'm not a beach person seeing how I don't need a tan :-)
September 28, 2011 10:18 AM - DeLepp
jessi, I've got a friend in SH so obligated to go but I prefer only in the fall and spring. In summer there is nothing like the jersey shore.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:18 AM
September 28, 2011 10:20 AM - denton
I think I do, snaps. I'll check when I get home.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:20 AM
September 28, 2011 10:20 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Snappy you should just learn how to use bit torrent and then you could just get their entire catalogue for free!
September 28, 2011 10:21 AM - jessibaby
OK, yeah - I love me some Jersey shore. LBI, Margate/Ventor/Longport, Ocean City, Stone Harbor and Cape May. Feel like beach towns instead of a suburb that happens to have a beach.
September 28, 2011 10:23 AM - Slopefarm
Hamptons are oppressive. Montauk is great, or at least was until the Hamptons spillover started overwhelming the place. Forget the ocean, lots of great bay beaches east of East Hampton. I highly recommend swimming in Napeague Bay. Louse Point is a great place to kayak. Skip the fancy restaurants and just get some fresh mussels and lobster and eat outside. Gosman's or Duryea's.
September 28, 2011 10:24 AM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Randi, I'm too much of a nervous nelly to do that. I'd be looking over my shoulder, sure that I'd be made an example of and prosecuted :-(
September 28, 2011 10:24 AM - Deleted
Hamptons are totally overrated. It's more about telling people you summer in the hamptons then actually enjoying it.

manhattan scenesters eating at the same types of restaurants they do in the city, going to the same clubs and shopping at the same stores. then you have the murray hill poseurs getting share houses in the fake hamptons towns (bridgehampton, hampton bays etc)

the north fork is much nicer
September 28, 2011 10:25 AM - Deleted
sag harbor is pretty nice tho
September 28, 2011 10:25 AM - cobblehiller
Thanks, Biffy. Intellectually, I'm sure it will all be very nice. It's the emotional adjustment that's going in fits and starts/bumpier.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:25 AM
September 28, 2011 10:26 AM - jessibaby
Fire Island was fun though
September 28, 2011 10:26 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: What about spotify? I can send you an invite if you give mea your email???
September 28, 2011 10:27 AM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Can I download the songs from spotify without paying for it?
September 28, 2011 10:27 AM - Arkady
Ahem. Slopey! Lobster over high holiday weekend visit?
September 28, 2011 10:28 AM - cobblehiller
Snaps, I have Smiths tapes! LOL!

We used to rent a little beach shack in Bridgehampton, south of the highway. It was fascinating to see all these EMPTY homes, totally dark at night except for driveway lights. We saw more gardeners than actual residents.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:28 AM
September 28, 2011 10:29 AM - cobblehiller
Fire Island is fantastic, except for the grocery shopping. They JACK the prices on everything.
September 28, 2011 10:29 AM - Deleted
I'm still trying to get my head around Minard and Montrose's statements yesterday about how wonderful life is for folks over in Europe. I can only relate my own experience, as follows:

Around the year 2000, I used to live in Milan, Italy about half-time, as I was charged with setting up an office for my company there. The reason we were setting up an office there was that Milan was becoming a budding center of innovation in fiber optics, due to some work carried out in the university and then carried forth by Pirelli's R&D group. Here are some of the things I observed:

-My first task was to locate a manager for the office. Through some customer contacts, I found a great guy. He was an Italian guy then living in England. When we started to negotiate his contract, I was amazed to find that EVERY SINGLE labor contract in Italy must be registered with the Italian government, and must follow a template devised by them. Moreover, we wanted to offer him a contract that was the equivalent of a manager, but he declined, because his employment could be terminated at will. Rather, he opted for a lower-paying position that afforded him emplyment security. This, from a then 29-year old guy. Moreover, his loaded salary was around $150K. Of that amount, only about $50K went into his pocket.

-A couple of years later, Pirelli sold their fiber-optics group to an American company. Soon thereafter the American company realized that some of the functions at this office were redundant with their operations and no longer needed. Their hands were tied, however, because it is virtually impossibe to lay off someone in Italy. Rather, they offered a person I knew well TWO AND A HALF year's salary to leave her position.

-I'm not sure most people realize how many Europeans actually live, in terms of housing. I went to the homes of a couple of engineers there. Suffice it to say that on an engineer's salary, the best they could do was to live in one of the drab modern developments located in one of the inner-ring suburbs ,that resemble one of our housing projects.

-Finally, because of the rigid labor laws and high cost of doing business there, the fiber-optics business in Milan is dead. It is really a shame, because 10 years ago, Milan had an excellent record in this field. One of the people I was closest to now manages a clothing store. Another went to get a MBA and now works for Apple.

From my experience in Milan, I came away with a renewed appreciation of our system and values.
September 28, 2011 10:30 AM - Arkady
But I love The Hollies! (The Holies not so much.)
September 28, 2011 10:31 AM - cobblehiller
"Skip the fancy restaurants and just get some fresh mussels and lobster and eat outside. Gosman's or Duryea's."

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Duryea's! I used to stay in a bed & breakfast across the street from there. Perfect place.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:31 AM
September 28, 2011 10:32 AM - Arkady
Europe comprises a lot of other countries & I've lived in several where conditions are better than those.
September 28, 2011 10:34 AM - dibs
There's no place in the world where you can live better and cheaper than the US. Everything (food, gas, electronics) is cheaper in the US
September 28, 2011 10:35 AM - jessibaby
“There's no place in the world where you can live better and cheaper than the US. Everything (food, gas, electronics) is cheaper in the US”

I’m hoping this is just bait.

September 28, 2011 10:36 AM - dibs
No, it's not. it's fact.
September 28, 2011 10:37 AM - jessibaby
Ever looked south of the equator?
September 28, 2011 10:37 AM - DeLepp
Prices have come down at grocery store on the FI-pines. Was kinda surprised when there in Sept. Sadly liquor store didn't have hendricks so I managed with bombay.
September 28, 2011 10:38 AM - ij
"I’m hoping this is just bait."

High tide someone kindled a beach punfest.
September 28, 2011 10:38 AM - dibs
Yes. Except for their major cities, which are very expensive, the rest of those countries qualifies as "third world."
September 28, 2011 10:39 AM - cobblehiller
"Sadly liquor store didn't have hendricks so I managed with bombay."

LOL! Terrible that you had to 'suffer through'! : P
September 28, 2011 10:39 AM - DeadCatBounce
Bait from the Master.

Although he is mostly right.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:39 AM
September 28, 2011 10:39 AM - dibs
I bet it made life hell for Andy that weekend too.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:39 AM
September 28, 2011 10:40 AM - Biff Champion
For the record, I don't fancy myself a Hamptons type AT ALL. I think I've been out that way one time in my 14+ years in New York and that was for winery hopping one fall maybe a decade ago. Just looking forward to a nice, sunny, cool, relaxing fall long weekend.
September 28, 2011 10:41 AM - jessibaby
Dave, why can’t one have a high quality of life in a “third world” city? Colleagues of mine lived like KINGS on approx. 30k a year.
September 28, 2011 10:41 AM - Deleted
don't worry biff - it's after labor day so we won't label you a hamptons douchebag haha
September 28, 2011 10:41 AM - denton
benson, for sure Italy is the most hidebound of the major Euro economies. But I bet you ate and drank pretty well!

A few years ago I got an inquiry from a publisher about using a shot of mine of the Brooklyn Bridge on the Italian edition of a American crime novel. We agreed on the paltry sum and when they paid me they withheld a third of it for Itallian taxes! I was pretty pissed about it!
September 28, 2011 10:43 AM - More4Less
JB, a friend moved to Sweden making around 35k or so as a lawyer and he's living very well with wife and 2 kids. ie no need to even go to south of the equator
September 28, 2011 10:43 AM - BoerumHillScott
"live better" is very subjective, but in many ways I agree that the American system is better for a large class of people than the European system.

However, that does not mean that our system is perfect as is, or that there are not things that can be learned from the Europeans.

When it comes to many "quality of life" issues, Europeans are often better off and happier on average than Americans.
September 28, 2011 10:43 AM - Deleted
"But I bet you ate and drank pretty well! "

For sure! Also, weekends at Lake Como were wonderful. If I struck it rich, I would buy a vacation home in Lake Como. One of the most beautiful spots on earth, IMHO.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:43 AM
September 28, 2011 10:43 AM - dibs
How did their housing compare to the average 3,500 sq ft American house with a yard on a nice street, jessi??? I've been to a lot of third world countries. It's not a comparable lifestyle in any of them. I know what $30,000 gets you in the third world.....a lot if you were born there but if you're coming from America...not much
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:43 AM
September 28, 2011 10:44 AM - Deleted
" We agreed on the paltry sum and when they paid me they withheld a third of it for Itallian taxes! I was pretty pissed about it!"

i don't think they were supposed to do that. we don't withhold vat when we pay our foreign contractors.
September 28, 2011 10:44 AM - Biff Champion
Thanks DH...I would like to maintain my label as a Brooklyn Heights / Canadian douchebag. :-)
September 28, 2011 10:44 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: I think people in japan and south korea have a much better quality of life than we do. And the food there is SO much better and cheaper.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:44 AM
September 28, 2011 10:45 AM - Deleted
i love that the rich guy who is about to go into early retirement is lecturing us about how the US is the best.


Edited at September 28, 2011 10:45 AM
September 28, 2011 10:45 AM - DeLepp
Ha dibs, andy stayed home that weekend. He missed out on old decrepit men strolling the beach stark naked, glad I wear glasses and blind w/o them.
September 28, 2011 10:46 AM - dibs
I guess you really haven't spent any time in japan or S. Korea, randi. Food and rent is NOT cheaper on an apples to apples comparison (NYC vs. Tokyo vs. Seoul or even smalltown US vs small town Japan, etc)


FAIL
September 28, 2011 10:47 AM - Biff Champion
I find a lot of Americans cannot fathom that it's possible there is another country whose average citizen might enjoy a better overall quality of life.

I don't understand why it's so hard to believe.
September 28, 2011 10:47 AM - dibs
randi, you ever been to a middle class apartment in Tokyo??????? ever paid $5 for an apple?????
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:47 AM
September 28, 2011 10:48 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Good point DH. Dibs is an outlier on almost everything, not really sure why we listen to him :p
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:48 AM
September 28, 2011 10:48 AM - dibs
Biff, I'm talking relative cost for what you get.
September 28, 2011 10:49 AM - Deleted
"I think people in japan and south korea have a much better quality of life than we do. "

Are you for real? I invite you to come to my office and talk to my Japanese colleagues who are about to go back to Japan after a 5 year stint here. Yeah, they're really looking forward to going back to Tokyo so that a family of 4 can live in a 800 square feet rabbit hutch and commute 1.5 hours to work. Every single colleague who I've worked with doesn't forward to going back there.
September 28, 2011 10:50 AM - Biff Champion
"Biff, I'm talking relative cost for what you get."

Okay, start with price and quality of street walkers.

US vs. Thailand. Which is better?
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:51 AM
September 28, 2011 10:50 AM - dibs
Thank you, benson. randi, as usual, has his head up his ass
September 28, 2011 10:50 AM - petebklyn
apples very cheap and delicious and fresh this time of year upstate. since you're talking about apples.
September 28, 2011 10:51 AM - Deleted
Biff;

I am not imagining anything. I related my first-hand experience of living and working in Europe, and of working for a Japanese company.
September 28, 2011 10:51 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: I have inlaws in japan, have spent alot of time there. Never bought a $5 apple because you use yen there not dollars. And having smaller housing doesn't mean lesser quality of life. American obsession with all things LARGE is stupid and unsustainable.
September 28, 2011 10:51 AM - denton
"i don't think they were supposed to do that. we don't withhold vat when we pay our foreign contractors."

Difference btw US and Italy, dh, which was benson's point, after all.
September 28, 2011 10:51 AM - DeLepp
japan is fine if middle age or older, young people have lots of trouble finding work that matches with their education.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:51 AM
September 28, 2011 10:51 AM - rf
I don't think the average family needs a 3500-sq-ft house. That's what got the U.S. in trouble during the last decade.
September 28, 2011 10:51 AM - Slopefarm
1. No arkady, no lobster on HHs. Just brisket. I don't atone in Montauk.
2. Cobble -- the Duryeas have been a big NYS GOP family for decades and decades. Sorry to break it to you. But the lobster is great, so who cares.
3. I have no interest in a beach punfest atoll.
4. For your viewing, listening and philosophical pleasure, re: lobsters --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D1r8ePixWk
September 28, 2011 10:52 AM - jessibaby
Here’s a house in a very desirable area of the capital city. You can easily eat for a dollar a day and take a taxi for the same price.
http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/realestate/luxury_houses.php?ID=825

September 28, 2011 10:52 AM - petebklyn
" He missed out on old decrepit men strolling the beach stark naked" _ i was not out on fire island no matter what you claim.
September 28, 2011 10:52 AM - denton
Yeah, Japan must have the worst quality of life of any civilized country. Just ask the guys who have the job of packing the trains in the morning by pushing more and more people into them.
September 28, 2011 10:53 AM - More4Less
yeah, I call bullshit on Japan & Korea being better than US on this convo
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:53 AM
September 28, 2011 10:53 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Not everyone lives in Tokyo, 4 to a shitty apt. With 2 hour commute. Those may be the people you talk to, my experience and observations are.much much different. That means I.have my.head up my ass?
September 28, 2011 10:53 AM - dibs
Doesn't matter, rf. They can have it and afford it if they want it.

randi apparently does also not understand the concept of "Purchasing power parity."
September 28, 2011 10:54 AM - Biff Champion
Benson, fair enough and I wasn't directing my comment at you; it was a general statement. In your case, you related your experiences in Milan, which are valid. However, to me it doesn't completely refute what Minard and Montrose said, i.e., there may be a number of other cities where the average citizen feels he/she has a "wonderful life".
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:54 AM
September 28, 2011 10:54 AM - dibs
LOL...Ghana!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ROTFLMMFAO

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
September 28, 2011 10:55 AM - DeLepp
ha pete.
September 28, 2011 10:56 AM - BoerumHillScott
Japan and Korea have better Internet access (especially Korea), but overall I would not say they are better than the US.
September 28, 2011 10:57 AM - cobblehiller
" the Duryeas have been a big NYS GOP family for decades and decades. Sorry to break it to you. But the lobster is great, so who cares."

GASP! Ah well, can't have everything!
September 28, 2011 10:58 AM - bxgrl
Because we are a consumer society and we fall for the bigger is better all the time mantra. Half the time (or maybe a lot more) our national psyche is determined by marketing, not fact.
September 28, 2011 10:59 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
please no beach talk, im very depressed i never made it to a single beach this summer, or into any pool or anything summer-y :( another wasted summer


*rob*

September 28, 2011 10:59 AM - dibs
You can't get maine lobster anywhere else in the world except to pay through the nose at a fancy restaurant. Australian and all other warm water lobster sucks.
September 28, 2011 11:00 AM - Deleted
Biff;

And I'll turn your statement around in the following manner: there are other Americans who believe that life must be better in Europe or elsewhere, even though they have no first-hand experience there, other than a tour through the historical centers.
September 28, 2011 11:00 AM - More4Less
Rob, have you scheduled / requested all Fri's off for the rest of the year so that you used up all the remaining vacation days?
September 28, 2011 11:00 AM - Deleted
"Not everyone lives in Tokyo, 4 to a shitty apt. With 2 hour commute."

that sounds like all the kids graduating college now trying to find housing in NYC
September 28, 2011 11:01 AM - jessibaby
What’s so funny, Dave? Your initial point wasn’t to do with a country as a whole having the most purchasing power, it was about how the US has the best quality of life. I argue that you can get all the stuff you desire here over there for cheaper. Whether that applies to all Ghanaians, certainly not, but that wasn’t your initial point.
September 28, 2011 11:01 AM - denton
rob, get your ass on the F train and go to Coney Island. It's a short cheap ride.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:01 AM
September 28, 2011 11:02 AM - dibs
jessi, when I say "quality of life" that includes all aspects including whether the streets run free of sewage throughout the city, how much you have to bribe local officials or police to get anything done and whether or not you have to live in a gated community, as well as the freedom of the press, political system, etc, etc, etc


QED
September 28, 2011 11:02 AM - Deleted
"Half the time (or maybe a lot more) our national psyche is determined by marketing, not fact."

Oh please. As opposed to whom? Have you seen how the Japanese and most well-off Asians will only buy things that are "designer"? Ditto for the French and the Italians.

.
September 28, 2011 11:03 AM - dibs
Yes, benson...Japan (especially), Italy and France...Where function follows form.
September 28, 2011 11:05 AM - cobblehiller
"Australian and all other warm water lobster sucks."

I beg to differ, the lobster we had in Jamaica was DELICIOUS! We had a lobster salad there that is to die for. I have the recipe, it's very simple, fresh and wonderful. Caught same day, off the south coast, couldn't be better.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:05 AM
September 28, 2011 11:05 AM - ij
What's wrong with South Korea?
September 28, 2011 11:05 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Totally DH. Sometimes I forget that trying to talk.and.rationalize with dave is like talking to my parents- because he's the same age and so thoroughly stuck in the past its really just sad. Enjoy retirement in the country, dave.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:05 AM
September 28, 2011 11:06 AM - Deleted
" how much you have to bribe local officials or police to get anything done and whether or not you have to live in a gated community, as well as the freedom of the press, political system"

lmao lmao lmao

was this intended to be ironic?
September 28, 2011 11:06 AM - petebklyn
so rich people suck no matter what country they are from.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:06 AM
September 28, 2011 11:07 AM - Biff Champion
"there are other Americans who believe that life must be better in Europe or elsewhere"

Benson, my point was that people cannot fathom life might be better somewhere else, not that people believe it must be better somewhere else. It's about people, particularly those whom have never been outside of the US saying the US is the greatest country on earth. It's about keeping an open mind. It's about xenophobia and blind patriotism. It's about trying to see something from a non-American perspective, which seems difficult for many (and again, not pointing the finger at you).
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:10 AM
September 28, 2011 11:07 AM - dibs
"I forget that trying to talk.and.rationalize with dave is like talking to my parents- because he's the same age"

And been to far more countries and actually lived outside the US than you, randi. Chalk it up to actual experience. Sorry.
September 28, 2011 11:08 AM - More4Less
Jester, not that South Korea (or Japan) is bad, wrong, etc - just that they not better than the US
September 28, 2011 11:09 AM - denton
"What's wrong with South Korea?"

too goddam hot.
September 28, 2011 11:09 AM - dibs
here's an example...middle class, upper middle class AND rich Hong Kong people (except for the super rich) NEVER entertain at home but only at a restaurant. Why? because their homes are too small!!!!!
September 28, 2011 11:09 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: How would you know where I have been and lived? You are such a pompous prick to the core.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:09 AM
September 28, 2011 11:10 AM - jessibaby
"Benson, my point was that people cannot fathom life might be better somewhere else, not that people believe it must be better somewhere else. It's about people, particularly those whom have never been outside of the US saying the US is the greatest country on earth. It's about keeping an open mind. It's about xenophobia and blind patriotism. It's about trying to see something from a non-American perspective, which seems difficult for many (and again, not pointing the finger at you)."

Dave, this was my point.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:12 AM
September 28, 2011 11:10 AM - dibs
denton...ever been to Seoul during the Winter??????????
September 28, 2011 11:11 AM - dibs
enlighten me then, randi.


"You are such a pompous prick to the core." I could have made a personal attack on you far more devastating but I've got more class
September 28, 2011 11:11 AM - cobblehiller
"NEVER entertain at home but only at a restaurant. Why? because their homes are too small!!!!!"

Yeah, and that's true in NYC, too. We rarely have more than one or two people over here, due to lack of space. Usually meet people at a bar or restaurant.
September 28, 2011 11:12 AM - dibs
jesii, it's not about xenophobia for Christ's sake...it's about the quality of life and the cost of living and what you get for the money. Don't be obtuse
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:12 AM
September 28, 2011 11:12 AM - Arkady
Not just because homes are too small - cultural sense of privacy too which is found in most European & Asian countries.
But I agree about homarus americanus - which can be caught in Carib seas.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:12 AM
September 28, 2011 11:13 AM - cobblehiller
"my point was that people cannot fathom life might be better somewhere else, not that people believe it must be better somewhere else. It's about people, particularly those whom have never been outside of the US saying the US is the greatest country on earth. It's about keeping an open mind. It's about xenophobia and blind patriotism. It's about trying to see something from a non-American perspective, which seems difficult for many (and again, not pointing the finger at you).""

Hear! Hear! (I'm having a hard enough time imagining a better life in Ditmas Park! : P (JOKING!)
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:16 AM
September 28, 2011 11:13 AM - ij
I'm having 8 people to my alcove studio for a dinner party this Sunday night.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:13 AM
September 28, 2011 11:13 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
even tho i don't desire dick, europe is fucking nasty cuz it's full of foreskins. barf.

*rob*

September 28, 2011 11:14 AM - Deleted
Biff;

I still call bullshit. You are projecting, especially in terms of xenophobia. We take in huge numbers of immigrants in this country and do a pretty fair job of assimilating them. How are things going in Europe on that front? With the exception of England and France, the Europeans have isolated their immigrants, particularly the Muslim ones, into ghettos where they live a separate life.
September 28, 2011 11:14 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Go for it, devestate me. Im sure everyone will get a kick out of it.
September 28, 2011 11:15 AM - Deleted
"Go for it, devestate me. "

no homo
September 28, 2011 11:15 AM - Slopefarm
Any recs for honest/quality major appliance repair in BK? Out of warranty.
September 28, 2011 11:16 AM - dibs
"It's about people, particularly those whom have never been outside of the US saying the US is the greatest country on earth. It's about keeping an open mind. It's about xenophobia and blind patriotism. It's about trying to see something from a non-American perspective, which seems difficult for many"

And yet it is I who brought this subject up, someone who has lived outside the US and have travelled to somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 countries, not to mention meeting countless foreigners here in the US who have no desire to live in their home countries (and I'm not speaking about the illegals here)

Q.E.D
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:20 AM
September 28, 2011 11:16 AM - Deleted
And let's not begin to talk about Asia in terms of xenophobia and racism. How are the Koreans doing who have lived in Japan for decades? How about the Chinese in Malyasia, who, though having lived there for 100's of years, are CONSTITUTIONALLY forbidden from holding higher office?
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:16 AM
September 28, 2011 11:17 AM - jessibaby
“jesii, it's not about xenophobia for Christ's sake...it's about the quality of life and the cost of living and what you get for the money. Don't be obtuse”

Okay, on these terms, what’s wrong with the capital city of Ghana? To help flesh out your quality of life point, in large sectors of the city, trash is not on the streets and sewers are closed. Also, the legal system there is pretty solid, based on the English system - wigs and all.

September 28, 2011 11:18 AM - Biff Champion
"I still call bullshit. You are projecting, especially in terms of xenophobia. We take in huge numbers of immigrants in this country and do a pretty fair job of assimilating them. How are things going in Europe on that front? With the exception of England and France, the Europeans have isolated their immigrants, particularly the Muslim ones, into ghettos where they live a separate life."

This completely misses my point about the quality of life possibly being better somewhere/anywhere outside of the US.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:23 AM
September 28, 2011 11:18 AM - Arkady
Slopey - I hate the name but Servue - 718 788 2426
Also Prospect Appl 718 788 7038
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:18 AM
September 28, 2011 11:18 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: 25-30 countries? That's alot of sex tourism.
September 28, 2011 11:18 AM - MontroseMorris
"I'm still trying to get my head around Minard and Montrose's statements yesterday about how wonderful life is for folks over in Europe."

I never said that life is wonderful for folks in Europe. You extrapolated that from what? All I said was that most Europeans have more vacation time, which translates into less stress, perhaps better health because of less stress, and more time with family, etc. How you can turn that into your statement is amazing.

Also, as Biff and Arkady said, your experiences in Milan do not translate into the entire continent of Europe. That's like saying if I had a awful time in Mississippi, then the US is an awful place. And for many people, by the way, Dibs, living in some parts of the US is quite like living in a third world country. There is some mind numbing poverty here too, along with the riches. We are so spoiled.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:18 AM
September 28, 2011 11:18 AM - Deleted
"Okay, on these terms, what’s wrong with the capital city of Ghana?"

no asian rent boys?
September 28, 2011 11:19 AM - petebklyn
I agree. USA is far better. So pay your taxes and STFU.
September 28, 2011 11:21 AM - jessibaby
What Pete said. lol.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:21 AM
September 28, 2011 11:21 AM - Deleted
"I agree. USA is far better. So pay your taxes and STFU."

haha yeah, USA is so better but if taxes get raised at all all the job creators are gonna bounce!!

that's SOOOO patriotic.


treason!!
September 28, 2011 11:21 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
All I said was that most Europeans have more vacation time, which translates into less stress, perhaps better health because of less stress, and more time with family, etc. How you can turn that into your statement is amazing.

when i do use my vacation days, for extended periods i actually come back to work 10x more stressed than if i didnt take my vacation days at all. tho i guess that might be to the fact that i cant trollop off to some exotic island :(

*rob*

September 28, 2011 11:21 AM - Deleted
Montrose;

OK, I got it. You can make a projection about the whole of Europe without supplying any data. My counter-argument is invalid, because I lived in only one city.
September 28, 2011 11:23 AM - Slopefarm
yikes -- this conversation is off the rails. Xenophobia? Anti-americanism? MM made a point about the value in having some financial and emotional security around issues like health coverage, old age, child care in the manner that those issues are addressed in some Euro nations. She expressed the view that there is a value in not having to worry about those things the way we need to here. Benson made a point, from first-hand experience, about some of the quality of life difficulties he encountered in Italy. I think the overarching point was, "careful what you wish for, there's trade-offs". There's a good discussion/debate to be had on this topic. But, alas, this is the OT, so we're not having it.
September 28, 2011 11:23 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
and more time with family, = less stress?

uh no. most SANE people stay as far away from most of their family as possible as family = stress. why you think the holidays suck so much for most people?

*rob*

September 28, 2011 11:24 AM - Deleted
Biff;
I did not miss your point. You claim that many Americans are xenophobic, and make projections about life outside of the US. As opposed to whom? Asians and Europeans who work to keep their society, or at least their part of society, mono-ethnic, even when faced with immigration. That was my counter-point.

Gotta run. Bye all.
September 28, 2011 11:24 AM - Arkady
" is invalid, because I lived in only one city." Correct. & in only one country & 11 years ago.
September 28, 2011 11:25 AM - More4Less
only if Canada was warmer
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:25 AM
September 28, 2011 11:25 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
And for many people, by the way, Dibs, living in some parts of the US is quite like living in a third world country.

im not doubting you... tho im chary... can you give an example of such places?

*rob*

September 28, 2011 11:25 AM - jessibaby
^^who wants to bet on how many more posts will benson make?
September 28, 2011 11:25 AM - MontroseMorris
And while we're at it, living in a third world country is not necessarily horrible. Millions of people do it, and thrive. Not everyone is in a hellhole squatting over the detritus of the first world in a ragged tee shirt. Maybe most don't have the technology or material stuff that we feel is so important, but they live good lives, and we could learn a lot from them about how to be happy with less.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:25 AM
September 28, 2011 11:27 AM - Biff Champion
"I did not miss your point. You claim that many Americans are xenophobic, and make projections about life outside of the US. As opposed to whom? Asians and Europeans who work to keep their society, or at least their part of society, mono-ethnic, even when faced with immigration. That was my counter-point."

The argument that some of us are xenophobic and closed-minded but not as xenophobic or closed-minded as (InsertCity/CountryNameHere) is an interesting one.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:27 AM
September 28, 2011 11:28 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
i dont know... whenever i visit third world countries on the internet i can literally SMELL the poo mist thru my browser, i have to immediate click out. doesnt look so great. tho the people never particularly look depressed and angry like so many people here do.

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 11:28 AM
September 28, 2011 11:28 AM - denton
benson, you missed an article in the NYT the other day that said more Portuguese are moving to Angola than are immigrating.

I could live in Portugal.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:28 AM
September 28, 2011 11:29 AM - Biff Champion
" is invalid, because I lived in only one city." Correct. & in only one country & 11 years ago."

This is a very good point. History has shown countries can completely transform over a period of a decade.
September 28, 2011 11:30 AM - Deleted
it makes me absolutely nauseous to hear dibs/benson talk out of one side of their mouth about how much better the US is than other countries, and out the other side talk about how paying taxes to that country that has allowed YOU to have that quality of life is somehow the worst thing to do on earth.

question: if you grew up in milan would you be as successful as you are now?
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:30 AM
September 28, 2011 11:30 AM - Biff Champion
"^^who wants to bet on how many more posts will benson make?"

Lol...I'm putting the over/under at 10.
September 28, 2011 11:31 AM - bxgrl
benson- we are a consumer society- we have to be "sold" on everything. So my point is valid. In fact, you depend on our being a consumer society.

Jessi- you nailed it. Very well said.
September 28, 2011 11:33 AM - denton
Another country I could live in is Holland. And I've spend a lot of time there when I was in the marine business, so know it beyond a tour of the monuments.

OTOH the beer is warm and the food is terrible. Women not very good looking either, so the fact that prostitution is legal is not that exciting.
September 28, 2011 11:34 AM - DeLepp
Irvington NJ is 3 world like.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:34 AM
September 28, 2011 11:34 AM - denton
Not too many hedge funds in Milan dh.
September 28, 2011 11:34 AM - bxgrl
I think Monrose brings up an important point-it depends on what you want out of life. We are into a very materialistic way of life, we always want more or bigger. I think some of us can't fathom that there are people who don't live their lives that way.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:34 AM
September 28, 2011 11:35 AM - bxgrl
<3 DH! @ 11:30
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:35 AM
September 28, 2011 11:36 AM - Biff Champion
Rob, do you have a scratch 'n sniff computer?
September 28, 2011 11:36 AM - More4Less
Delepp, that's 4 sure. everytime I need to get off rt78, due to bad track, and go local on/thru irvington, I dread red lights
September 28, 2011 11:36 AM - MontroseMorris
Rob, I'm not even going to answer your questions, because statements about "smelling the poo mist in third world countries" over the internet is so offensive, I'm done with you.

As usual, benson lobs his bombs, and then leaves the field of play wrapped in a cloud of righteous indignation.

And for anyone's information, I have been to countries and places outside of tourist areas, and for more than a few hours. Maybe not nearly as many stamps on my passport as DIBS, but enough to make as informed an opinion as anyone else.
September 28, 2011 11:37 AM - Deleted
"Not too many hedge funds in Milan dh."

so?
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:36 AM
September 28, 2011 11:37 AM - petebklyn
"so the fact that prostitution is legal is not that exciting." -- that is really funny
September 28, 2011 11:38 AM - Deleted
Montrose;

I did not leave in righteous indignation. I'm still lurking. I've just decided that the conversation is going nowhere, so best to stop. That's all.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:38 AM
September 28, 2011 11:38 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Irvington NJ is 3 world like.

it's dangerous as fuck and is the most ghetto suburb in new jersey, but it is NOT third world like. people in true third world conditions cannot change their environment. environments like irvington NJ and other awful places are, for the most part, created by the people that live there.

*rob*

September 28, 2011 11:39 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
there's a HUGE difference between american slums (which are pretty much self-inflicted) and slums in the "third world". slums in the third world were never developed to begin with!


*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 11:39 AM
September 28, 2011 11:40 AM - Biff Champion
"And while we're at it, living in a third world country is not necessarily horrible. Millions of people do it, and thrive. Not everyone is in a hellhole squatting over the detritus of the first world in a ragged tee shirt. Maybe most don't have the technology or material stuff that we feel is so important, but they live good lives, and we could learn a lot from them about how to be happy with less."

I <3 MM


September 28, 2011 11:41 AM - MontroseMorris
Oh, meant to tell you many posts ago - congratulations, Cobble. When's the moving party? I've got clear packing tape.
September 28, 2011 11:41 AM - Biff Champion
Jessi, that's one...
September 28, 2011 11:42 AM - jessibaby
Rob, I argue it’s MUCH more difficult to be poor in America. In a developing country, you can eat for about a quarter a day and shelter is often free - you lose your job, you just go back to the village and hell, you can even grow your food.
September 28, 2011 11:42 AM - More4Less
Rob, ever been to the bad areas of south plainfield? I think it's worst than irvington
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:42 AM
September 28, 2011 11:42 AM - DeLepp
rob, good point, just realized I desparged slums by referencing irvington.
September 28, 2011 11:47 AM - petebklyn
why are we talking about new jersey? like who cares about that place?
September 28, 2011 11:47 AM - More4Less
Randi, so you married a Japanese girl? I didn't believe you when you referenced/hinted last time. but am believing you now. guess you had some mack back in the day landing yourself an Asian honey
September 28, 2011 11:49 AM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Rob, I argue it’s MUCH more difficult to be poor in America.

blame the moonfaces and their 10 dollar a scoop ice cream. okay lunchtime!

*rob*

September 28, 2011 11:49 AM - Legion
It's difficult being poor in America because the expectations are higher here.
It's hard to live like a hobo these days with all those strip malls and Starbucks dotting the countryside.


Poor in America has a different meaning anyway.
September 28, 2011 11:50 AM - DeadCatBounce
Cobble is right about Caribbean Lobsters. They taste just as delicious as Maine Lobsters. They don't have big claws but they do have stripes.

Denton is wrong about Dutch women being ugly. I spent time in Amsterdam and Enkhausen and there were plenty of hot women.
(I am very fussy by the way)
I hope that puts an end to all of the bickering!!!!
September 28, 2011 11:50 AM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Haha m4l. That's how I roll!
September 28, 2011 11:52 AM - dibs
"Poor in America has a different meaning anyway."

Certainly is. yes, there are extremely poor here but most of the "poor " have a pickup truck, 6 kids and 3 TVs.

I know I'm gonna hear from the "Third World Mouthpiece" on this one!!!
September 28, 2011 11:52 AM - dibs
Well, DCB, the claws are the best part of a Maine lobster.
September 28, 2011 11:53 AM - Deleted
yeah, if you possess any item that brings you enjoyment you aren't poor.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:53 AM
September 28, 2011 11:53 AM - DeLepp
the mns report on BS shows rents in clinton hill higher than park slope for studios thru 2 bedrooms, had someone said that to me 5 years ago...laugh...howl...snort.
September 28, 2011 11:55 AM - DeadCatBounce
Park Slope is the new Ghana
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:55 AM
September 28, 2011 11:55 AM - DeLepp
though mns report doesn't define hood boundaries so could all be bs.
September 28, 2011 11:56 AM - petebklyn
plenty of 3rd world has starvation, political unrest, violent gangs, rape, disease and no health care. I wouldn't make generalizations.
but does seem to be lot of unnecessary contempt for poor in this country.
September 28, 2011 11:58 AM - Legion
Snappy,
here is my list of the top 5 Smith's songs:

-How soon is now
-There is a light that never goes out
-Heaven knows I'm miserable now
-Bigmouth strikes again
-Oscillate Wildly or The boy with a thorn in his side (tied)
September 28, 2011 11:58 AM - Deleted
delepp - clinton hill def seems to be creeping on on park slope as far as rental prices go. lots more inventory in park slope and landlords seem reluctant to renovate their units. places i saw in clinton hill were gorgeous. park slope they were dumpy.
September 28, 2011 11:58 AM - Slopefarm
yes, delepp, we all know from the classifieds that Park Slope stretches through sunset park, kensington, half of flatbush and parts of crown heights and bed-stuy. It reaches bensonhurst if you count "vicinity," but only the limestone townhouses.
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:58 AM
September 28, 2011 11:58 AM - MontroseMorris
Dave, I'm not going to even bother, your statement speaks for itself.
September 28, 2011 11:59 AM - dibs
When you answer to the name "The DeLepps of Clinton Hill" you better expect to pay more!!!!!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 11:59 AM
September 28, 2011 12:02 PM - Legion
pete
it's not contempt for the poor at all,
I believe it's a more subtle dynamic.
I'm not making a judgement call here
only a cold clinical assessment:

I think it's an unspoken feeling that to be desperately poor in the US is somehow a violation of our social contract. This is based on the narrative that anyone can "make it" in America.

...this may be changing.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:02 PM
September 28, 2011 12:02 PM - DeLepp
haha slope and dibs, will need to bring this up at next meeting so that the old timers in bldg will relent to some repairs because soon bldg will look like the broken angel.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:02 PM
September 28, 2011 12:03 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: This is what I mean about dave's pomposity- he can't even allow someone to think that carribean lobsters are delicious. He has to chime in that the best part, the claws (opinion not fact I might add) are absent.

Total buzzkill.
September 28, 2011 12:06 PM - cobblehiller
""I agree. USA is far better. So pay your taxes and STFU."
haha yeah, USA is so better but if taxes get raised at all all the job creators are gonna bounce!!
that's SOOOO patriotic.
treason!!

It is TREASONOUS! I've been saying this for MONTHS! I've had republicans I barely know say it to me!
September 28, 2011 12:08 PM - dibs
Well Legion, when Obama stands up and constantly berates the American dream of becoming a "millionaire and billionaire" that is more than a bit disconcerting.

But what do you expect from a Democrat?????
September 28, 2011 12:10 PM - Legion
I think I could live happily abroad for an extended period.
It's the responsibilities that keep me here in NYC.

Who knows, by the time retirement comes around Cuba may
be ready to be friends with the US again?



September 28, 2011 12:10 PM - dibs
randi, are you going to blogicide over my lobster tastes????


September 28, 2011 12:11 PM - Biff Champion
Seems like the claws have come out today.
September 28, 2011 12:12 PM - cobblehiller
I saw a GORGEOUS way over-priced rent-stabilized place in Clinton Hill. Perfect apt. ... for one person. Who doesn't mind a teeensy tiny place, is never home, never entertains, or just has 4 sticks of furniture.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:13 PM
September 28, 2011 12:12 PM - dibs
"Eat your peas" but don't expect to become a millionaire because he'll tax the hell out of you starting at $250,000.


September 28, 2011 12:13 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Dave is a bottom feeder.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:13 PM
September 28, 2011 12:13 PM - dibs
Cobble, any thoughts on the overall quality of rent stabilized units/buildings vs. market ones????
September 28, 2011 12:14 PM - Biff Champion
Legion, what about:

Cemetery Gates (my personal favourite)
The Boy with the Thorn in His Side
Girlfriend in a Coma
Panic
Sheila Take a Bow

Those, along with How Soon is Now, represent my top 5 plus 1
September 28, 2011 12:15 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: If by "tax the hell out of you" you mean "return rates to those of the Clinton era", then I guess you are correct.
September 28, 2011 12:15 PM - dibs
Maybe, but pretty well fed!!!!!!
September 28, 2011 12:15 PM - Legion
true dibs,
that's what Christie was getting at.

At this time in our nation's history,
is it really a good idea to continue bashing the innovators and producers?
I think if the President wanted to be taken seriously he wouldn't be making such pronouncements from Martha's Vineyard.
September 28, 2011 12:16 PM - Biff Champion
"Dave is a bottom feeder."

Was that a double entendre as in he likes tossing salads?
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:16 PM
September 28, 2011 12:16 PM - bxgrl
If you want to read a great story, check out: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903285704576560843680243976.html


A Good friend of mine.
September 28, 2011 12:16 PM - dibs
And why are the Clinton era rates the better of the two????
September 28, 2011 12:16 PM - Kensingtonian
Legion, speaking of Cuba,

Did you see Castro calling Obama's UN speech "gibberish"?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-15071936

Edited at September 28, 2011 12:16 PM
September 28, 2011 12:17 PM - Biff Champion
Golden retrievers are wonderful.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:17 PM
September 28, 2011 12:18 PM - DeLepp
Was at dinner with someone last night who is 53 and still has college loans outstanding. Went to harvard for theology, quit two weeks b4 done and is now an athiest. Wants govt to forgive his debt...almost jumped over table.
September 28, 2011 12:19 PM - Slopefarm
"Dave is a bottom feeder."

I wouldn't say that. But definitely a bit crabby today.

"I should have been a pair of ragged claws, scuttling across the floors of silent seas."

[From memory, not google. Hopefully correct.]
September 28, 2011 12:20 PM - denton
"Who knows, by the time retirement comes around Cuba may be ready to be friends with the US again?"

Hey Legion, yet another advantage of being European. You are already friendly with Cuba! Now there's a place I would like to take a sex tour of.
September 28, 2011 12:20 PM - dibs
randi, do you know why capital gains are taxed at a lower rate?????
September 28, 2011 12:21 PM - Legion
biff,
love Cemetery Gates!
The boy with the thorn in his side made my list (tied for 5th)

I missed seeing them play at Irving Plaza or the Bowery Ballroom (I forget which) in 84.
A bunch of friends ( including girls) were gonna meet in the city that night,
I nerded out saying I had a test or something the next day.
I wish I could go back and kick my 16 year old self in the ass! :o(
September 28, 2011 12:22 PM - dibs
And do you also understand about indexing tax levels for inflation???
September 28, 2011 12:22 PM - Legion
ha ha denton,

Cuba has something for everyone indeed,
including cigars rolled on the hips of virgins.
September 28, 2011 12:23 PM - DeLepp
legion, irving plaza, you missed a great concert!
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:23 PM
September 28, 2011 12:24 PM - cobblehiller
"Cobble, any thoughts on the overall quality of rent stabilized units/buildings vs. market ones????"

It's too hard to generalize, but a good number of the market-rate apts I've seen were complete CRAP and tiny compared to the relative luxury of our new RS place with all new everything!!

Oh, and NOT GETTING YOUR RENT EFFING JACKED, that factors in on the plus side! LOL!
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:26 PM
September 28, 2011 12:24 PM - MontroseMorris
Obama has NEVER said, or even implied, that he did not want people to succeed or become millionaires. That is such hyperbole. Ridiculous.
September 28, 2011 12:25 PM - Biff Champion
"A bunch of friends ( including girls) were gonna meet in the city that night,
I nerded out saying I had a test or something the next day.
I wish I could go back and kick my 16 year old self in the ass! :o("

The consolation is your studious side led to your medical degree. And where are those friends of yours now?
September 28, 2011 12:25 PM - Slopefarm
Saw some great shows at the Palladium when it was a theater. Ramones, Elvis Costello . . .
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:25 PM
September 28, 2011 12:25 PM - dibs
I also think that Berkshire Hathaway is a short. I don't want to own a stock in a company run by a guy who doesn't want to make any more money. nor do i want to own a stock in a fund (it is esseentially a fund) who's job it is to find underpriced stocks out there and he thinks that HIS stock is the most underpriced. that is hubris of the highest order.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:25 PM
September 28, 2011 12:26 PM - Biff Champion
"Cuba has something for everyone indeed,
including cigars rolled on the hips of virgins."

I've been to Cuba (via Canada) and never saw that but, oh, the imagery!
September 28, 2011 12:26 PM - dibs
MM, every chance he gets he rails on the millionaires. It's very disconcerting. I don't care what any of you say, he is the most leftist president we've ever had and he has to go.
September 28, 2011 12:27 PM - BoerumHillScott
Higher tax rates are better than current tax rates because we are running a huge deficit.

Neither party nor the American people are interested in a substantial cut in the cost of the federal government.
That leaves the revenue side as the answer.

Personally, I am against Obama's tax plan is bad because I think that increased tax burden should be shared by all people.
We have had a mentality in this country for far too long that we can get stuff without having to pay for it.
This mentality is not limited to government, but influences much of our society.
September 28, 2011 12:27 PM - cobblehiller
"Saw some great shows at the Palladium when it was a theater. Ramones, Elvis Costello . . ."

Likewise! Neil Young & Crazy Horse, Pretenders...I should go look at my ticket stubs, I saw quite a few shows there.
September 28, 2011 12:28 PM - Slopefarm
OK, guess I'll have to take my appliance repair query over there ------> You all are too busy trashing each other for things you didn't say to provide advice, or even pun.
September 28, 2011 12:28 PM - dibs
CGar rolled on the hips of a virgin?????????????????????
September 28, 2011 12:28 PM - Biff Champion
I just became a Steve Buscemi fan...
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:28 PM
September 28, 2011 12:28 PM - Legion
kens,
wow, hadn't seen that statement by Castro.
I've heard that Cuba is moving towards normalizing relations with the US.
I'd be interested in reading an autobiography by him
written in his last years.
September 28, 2011 12:29 PM - dibs
And for him to ask the $250,000 earners to pay more is even more ridiculous.
September 28, 2011 12:29 PM - BoerumHillScott
I would not buy Berkshire Hathaway because once Buffett gets old enough to no longer run the place, I think it will tank big time.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:29 PM
September 28, 2011 12:30 PM - Legion
"The consolation is your studious side led to your medical degree. And where are those friends of yours now?"

They're out of student debt and seeing cool bands every weekend. :o(



September 28, 2011 12:30 PM - denton
I would hardly call Obama a leftist.
September 28, 2011 12:31 PM - Deleted
Lunch was quite good today.

JB and Biff, that's # 2.
September 28, 2011 12:32 PM - Legion
"CGar rolled on the hips of a virgin?????????????????????"

I don't know if that woman was a virgin,
but I distinctly recall seeing a photo of CGar being rolled
on a lady's hip at Montero's.

September 28, 2011 12:32 PM - Biff Champion
"They're out of student debt and seeing cool bands every weekend. :o("

Likely also working along side me at The Death Star. Losers...
September 28, 2011 12:32 PM - boerumresident
I think the buy back is basically saying that the market is not appropriately valuing the assets locked inside the company and so the current stock price is cheap compared to the un-realized value. I am not sure how he can say that, but that woudl be the inherent logic of it.

Also, when did he say that he doesn't want to make any more money?
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:32 PM
September 28, 2011 12:33 PM - cobblehiller
""Cobble, any thoughts on the overall quality of rent stabilized units/buildings vs. market ones????""

Further thoughts....the RS apts are in pre-war or slightly post war. This means that the construction and layouts are pretty classic, good. One that I lived in had the original parquet floors, in very good condition, and a GIANT claw foot tub which I loved a lot. I'm pro-RS apts. I was in one here in CH for 8 years. I loved that place, I fixed it up, worked with the LL to have ti rewired and painted my colors. I never would have moved if it hadn't been too small for BH's taste. It was perfect for me/one. I handed it off to an in-law relative.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:03 PM
September 28, 2011 12:33 PM - bxgrl
Bashing the innovators and producers? Yes, if all that innovation and production is for and in other countries and a few pockets, yet protected under the aegis of the United States.

Legion_ "I think it's an unspoken feeling that to be desperately poor in the US is somehow a violation of our social contract. This is based on the narrative that anyone can "make it" in America."

I think you miss the point. It isn't being poor in this country that's the problem. It's telling the poor they don't deserve to live in the US. Our social contract is not about making sure everyone is rich, it's about making sure people can have basic food, shelter and healthcare. It's about one group fighting for a safety net and the other cliaming if you can't pay for it, you should just shut up and go away.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:33 PM
September 28, 2011 12:34 PM - boerumresident
I thought the only tax increase was at the million+ level -- the $250K is just the expiration of the 2001 tax cut.
September 28, 2011 12:35 PM - Legion
slopefarm,
That iconic album cover image of the Clash on London Calling,
was taken at the Palladium I believe.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:35 PM
September 28, 2011 12:36 PM - dibs
BRK is a holding company, nothing more. It's selling for a 13% premium over Book value. Why should it sell for more????? The lions share of BV is from recent purchases of companiues so the realization of a profit is a long way off
September 28, 2011 12:36 PM - boerumresident
I so agree, but in a lot of cases that is because of the era of the building. It's the buildings that went up in the late 1950's that sometimes leave a lot to be desired.

The other issue of course is the quality of the post-vacancy renovation -- some property managers do a decent job, and others not so much.
September 28, 2011 12:37 PM - Biff Champion
Legion, good call re: London Calling

From Wiki:

The album's front cover features a photograph of Simonon smashing his Fender Precision Bass (on display at the Cleveland Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as of May 2009)[11] against the stage at The Palladium in New York City on 21 September 1979 during the Clash Take the Fifth US tour.[12][13] Pennie Smith, who photographed the band for the album, originally did not want the photograph to be used. She thought that it was too out of focus, but Strummer and graphic designer Ray Lowry thought it would make a good album cover.[13][14] In 2002, Smith's photograph was named the best rock and roll photograph of all time by Q magazine, commenting that "it captures the ultimate rock'n'roll moment - total loss of control".[15]

The cover artwork was designed by Lowry and was a homage to the design of Elvis Presley's self-titled debut album.[16][17] The cover was named the ninth best album cover of all time by Q magazine in 2001.[18]

The album cover for London Calling was among the ten chosen by the Royal Mail for a set of "Classic Album Cover" postage stamps issued in January 2010.[19][20]
September 28, 2011 12:37 PM - dibs
"t's telling the poor they don't deserve to live in the US."

Ummmmm, who the hell said that, bxgrl?????????
September 28, 2011 12:37 PM - Slopefarm
Could be, legion. I never saw The Clash live. Wish I had when they were in their prime. LC is their best album.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:37 PM
September 28, 2011 12:37 PM - bxgrl
dave- ate at a small Mexican place yesterday on E. 97th. Can't remember the name but the food was great (what I could eat of it. Ask me why my sister would insist on Mexican when I just came from the dr. for my ulcers?) But the waiter was...all I could think of was should I ask him for his phone number? And for me or for you? :)
September 28, 2011 12:37 PM - Biff Champion
Here's the Elvis cover. I never realized it was so similar.

September 28, 2011 12:39 PM - dibs
Damn, E97 is too far to travel to, even for a cute mexican.
September 28, 2011 12:39 PM - Legion
ha biff,
I was about to say that it was a take on the Elvis cover. ;o)
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:39 PM
September 28, 2011 12:39 PM - bxgrl
It's the implication dave. It's the elephant in the room. It's been said a million different ways without actually coming out and saying those words. Not saying you specifically.
September 28, 2011 12:40 PM - Legion
I only went to the Palladium when it was a bridge and tunnel nightclub.

...I usually went there by bridge.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:40 PM
September 28, 2011 12:41 PM - Legion
yeah bxgrl,
...who the hell is saying that? :o(
September 28, 2011 12:41 PM - Deleted
I hate the poor!!! There, I said it.

(I'm in sales - I give the customer what they want).

(PS: JB and Biff: that's # 3)
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:41 PM
September 28, 2011 12:42 PM - dibs
I don't think ANYONE here is telling the poor they don't deserve to live here, consciously or otherwise.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:42 PM
September 28, 2011 12:42 PM - minard lafever
Congrats on the lease signing Cobble!
What a relief you must feel. Am very happy for you.
Now comes the move! oy! It will be all be over before you know it.


September 28, 2011 12:43 PM - Slopefarm
benson -- you have to hold something back. Declaring you hate the poor in #3 doesn't give you much room to escalate. I shudder to think of what you will declare in #8.
September 28, 2011 12:44 PM - Legion
lol benson.

September 28, 2011 12:45 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Our social contract is not about making sure everyone is rich, it's about making sure people can have basic food, shelter and healthcare.

boo. where's MY basic food, shelterer, and healthcare? why do some people have to pay for it on their own just cuz they have a job and some people dont have to pay for stuff like that? it should be all or nothing. free for everyone, or free for no one!
im seriously, why cant i get a food stamps monthly allowance? not fair!

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 12:45 PM
September 28, 2011 12:46 PM - Biff Champion
Slopey, there are a number of groups as marginalized as much as or more than the poor. Benson still has some wiggle room.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:46 PM
September 28, 2011 12:47 PM - Biff Champion
"It will be all be over before you know it."

Said Biff to Mrs. C...
September 28, 2011 12:47 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
and im not asking for an EBT card loaded with thousands of dollars, just a little bit. everyone should free food stamp money regardless of how much they make. what's fair is fair! id also like a section 8 voucher so i only have to pay 1/3 of my income.


*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 12:47 PM
September 28, 2011 12:47 PM - ij
Everyone out eating lobster?
September 28, 2011 12:49 PM - ij
That was weird - I hit refresh like 3 times, and no posts since 12:16 appeared.
September 28, 2011 12:49 PM - dibs
jester, I think the best lobster roll in NYC is supposedly in Red Hook
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:49 PM
September 28, 2011 12:49 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
I handed it off to an in-law relative.

wow.. just wow. im pro rent stabalized apartments, but i find it vile that people can hand them down to family members. :-/

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 12:49 PM
September 28, 2011 12:49 PM - DeadCatBounce
I missed the "social contract" thing entirely. Must have cut class that day. I do remember the bill of rights though.
That was a really good contract.
I would need to read the "social contract" before forming an opinion.

September 28, 2011 12:50 PM - More4Less
slopey, Arkady gave you the digits for repairs.
September 28, 2011 12:50 PM - bxgrl
rob- you have a job and steady income. You have medical insurance and vacation time. Honestly, what are you complaining for?
September 28, 2011 12:50 PM - dibs
rob, she's a democrat...she has no qualms about handing off a rent stabilized apt to someone else in the family under questionable circumstances
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:50 PM
September 28, 2011 12:51 PM - ij
Confused by the pagination! Oops.
September 28, 2011 12:52 PM - Biff Champion
London Calling Ranks as the 10th Best Album Cover Ever on this list:

http://www.topalbumcovers.com/

September 28, 2011 12:52 PM - dibs
rob, stop smoking and you'll have more money.
September 28, 2011 12:53 PM - bxgrl
Interesting report on Chris Christie's speech at the Ronald Reagan Library. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/09/the-heresies-of-chris-christie/245818/

I'm sure it didn't sit well with the Tea Party and Right wing, but good for him.
September 28, 2011 12:53 PM - Kensingtonian
Lobster roll from Red Hook Lobster Pound was very delish. I've had better in Newport though.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:53 PM
September 28, 2011 12:55 PM - dibs
"Lobster roll from Red Hook Lobster Pound was very delish. I've had better in Newport though."

And you probably paid republican prices for it there too!!!!!!!!
September 28, 2011 12:57 PM - Kensingtonian
I sure did Dave. It was like 15 bucks and it was on the small side! Ok for like breakfast but if you're hungry you need 2 of them to fill you up (nh).
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:56 PM
September 28, 2011 12:57 PM - Biff Champion
I'm not overly familiar with the rent control/rent stabilization laws in NYC, but Cobble, how did you get a rent stablized place? I thought it had to be passed down from a relative and/or you had to have been living in the unit moved into the unit before 1993 or so.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:57 PM
September 28, 2011 12:59 PM - dibs
or you could be Charlie Rangel.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:59 PM
September 28, 2011 12:59 PM - boerumresident
CH can defend herself, but ther's nothing "questionable" about finding a replacement tenant that is acceptable to the landlord.
Edited at September 28, 2011 12:59 PM
September 28, 2011 1:00 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: The new place in gpoint called lobster joint has an even better one than lobster pound. And they serve alcohol.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:00 PM
September 28, 2011 1:01 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
it's easy to find rent stabalized apartments (well. not THAT easy), but in most areas they are not that much different in price than market rate, but at least your recent cant keep going up insanely every year. rent controlled apartments are the ones with old people dying in them. you cant really get those.




*rob*

September 28, 2011 1:01 PM - dibs
Claws too, randi?????
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:01 PM
September 28, 2011 1:02 PM - boerumresident
You go and apply for the apartment if it is becoming vacant. I had a R/S apartment for six years that way, and then moved on when we needed more space. Most of the larger rental buildings in Brookyln Heights and Park Slope are rent stabilized, unless the LL was able to de-control the apartment somehow.
September 28, 2011 1:03 PM - boerumresident
Rob is actually right- a rent control apt becomes rent stabilized if the tentant protected by rent control moves out (or dies).
September 28, 2011 1:04 PM - dibs
I was thinking of RC, I believe.
September 28, 2011 1:05 PM - Biff Champion
Thanks BR. But can't the LL "de-stabilize" it once the stabilized tenant moves out? Why does it have to stay stabilized? (I'm not against the concept, just trying to learn about the subject).
September 28, 2011 1:06 PM - dibs
Biff, some maybe. I was actually in one years ago and it was stabilized as part of a tax break the building got to renovate...that had a finite life of RS but could not change before that.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:06 PM
September 28, 2011 1:08 PM - Deleted
rent has to exceed 2k a month for an apartment to be de regulated.
September 28, 2011 1:08 PM - Deleted
and lots of bldgs opt for stabilzation bc they get tax breaks
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:08 PM
September 28, 2011 1:09 PM - cobblehiller
I got my old RS apartment because I knew someone else who lived in the building and he told me there was an apt about to open up. I went to the management agent and signed a lease. When my semi-relative needed a place, I told her I was leaving awhile before I moved. I gave her the LLs number. I told LL she would be calling. And LL gave her her own lease after mine was up.

How we found the new place. It's a story. BH placed an ad on Craigslist. A broker with access to this building in DP called us. Only BH went to see it, because I was having my 19th nervous breakdown, and we assumed it would be crap. It was not only NOT CRAP, it was EXTRA NICE. I went to see it Monday night. We checked it out, sweat a lot, and today BH signed the lease.
September 28, 2011 1:09 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
ive noticed tho that people who flip out about rent control and rent stabalized apartments never say shit about the crazy 20 year TAX ABATEMENTS THAT PEOPLE IN LUXURY CONDOS GET!!!!

*rob*

September 28, 2011 1:10 PM - Biff Champion
Thanks DH, so if the LL can get more than $2K a month, the apartment can be de-regulated? (Sorry, I know this is like Rent Stabilization for Dummies)
September 28, 2011 1:11 PM - dibs
rob...those luxury condo owners will eventually PAY THROUGH THE ASS when those abatements are up. They know not what they are in for.
September 28, 2011 1:12 PM - cobblehiller
It's actually $2500 now, DH.

"If the building is rent stabilized, all of your renewal leases are governed by the lease renewal percentages enacted yearly by the Rent Guidelines Board. See here for current guidelines. If your unit is not stabilized, then there are no limits on increases your landlord can charge when the lease expires.

What happens when the rent for my stabilized apartment rises above $2,500?

An apartment will remain rent stabilized even if the rent rises above $2,500 while a tenant remains in occupancy and household income is less than $200,000 for the two previous years. However, as the rent reaches $2,500 or more, the owner has a right to petition the NY State Division of Housing and Community Renewal to deregulate the apartment. Complete information on this can be found in the Decontrol/Destabilization FAQ section."

http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/faq/rentstab.html#when
September 28, 2011 1:13 PM - BoerumHillScott
Condo owners with abatements should know what they are in for, since it is well documented.
However, I guess that most will be quite shocked as the reality sinks in.

I still predict a property tax revolt by the time they all expire.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:13 PM
September 28, 2011 1:14 PM - Biff Champion
"rob...those luxury condo owners will eventually PAY THROUGH THE ASS when those abatements are up. They know not what they are in for."

I think this is very true. Some new condos have relatively high maintenance despite getting the abatements (due to the other components of the maintenance) and in a decade or so, I would imagine there will be a ton of condos put up for sale once the abatements end.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:14 PM
September 28, 2011 1:15 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
only he signed the lease? why didnt you sign it also? what if he decides to dump you? what if you get into a bleach throwing fight and one of you calls the cops?!

*rob*

September 28, 2011 1:16 PM - cobblehiller
I saw the Clash at the Pier. Absolutely one of the top 3 shows of my life.
September 28, 2011 1:16 PM - Biff Champion
"I still predict a property tax revolt by the time they all expire."

Not sure how far the revolt will go by that time. The city will likely be even more desperate for revenues.
September 28, 2011 1:16 PM - jessibaby
“rob- you have a job and steady income. You have medical insurance and vacation time. Honestly, what are you complaining for?”

Yeah, and if you want something for free, Rob, you could start by taking your vacation days. I think that if you got money for not working you’d be miserable, alone with yourself all day - be thankful that the universe gave you a job to do.

Edited at September 28, 2011 1:16 PM
September 28, 2011 1:16 PM - dibs
Additionally, with all these new condos, there's no reserve on the balance sheet. eventually the special charges will begin to appear and they will be killers!!!!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:16 PM
September 28, 2011 1:17 PM - dibs
"what if you get into a bleach throwing fight and one of you calls the cops?"

ROTFLMMFAO
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:17 PM
September 28, 2011 1:18 PM - cobblehiller
BH signed the lease. I could be on it, but since my income is crap, we didn't bother.

BH is not dumping me. Rob, we're WASPs, remember? We just grind our teeth and speak more quietly when we're angry with each other. : P
September 28, 2011 1:18 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Brownstoner has a new widget type feature- Price Wars!!! I am the only moron to vote for hall st. I value outdoor space over 2 bedrooms.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:18 PM
September 28, 2011 1:21 PM - dibs
Where randi???? Most recent post I see is Rental of the Day
September 28, 2011 1:22 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Top of the page last I looked.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:22 PM
September 28, 2011 1:23 PM - denton
STupid math question. If a bank pays .01% interest on a savings account, then you make a dollar interest for every $10,000 deposited, right?
September 28, 2011 1:23 PM - Deleted
oh weird - i guess they raised it recently!


September 28, 2011 1:24 PM - dibs
I don't see anything other than ROTD
September 28, 2011 1:25 PM - dibs
Yes, denton, that's correct.
September 28, 2011 1:26 PM - denton
I had to post in the butcher thread:

"Yesterday, handcrafted wine. Today, eclectic chopped meat. I think I need to get the eff outta Brooklyn. "


Edited at September 28, 2011 1:26 PM
September 28, 2011 1:26 PM - denton
thanks dibs.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:26 PM
September 28, 2011 1:28 PM - cobblehiller
You can go online and find the list of every rent stabilized building in NYC.

If you really wanted an apt in a particular building you could figure out who the LL and/or management agent/realtor is and stalk them until a place opens up. You can also find floor plans for some of the old ones. I found the original floor plan for our new one online.

Turn over was surprisingly high in my old building. But my apt was nicer than most in that building and the management was crap. Most were saving to buy. I worked for a BIG law firm, and my LL was an old man, verging on senility, who a) thought I was a lawyer, and b) was sweet on me. So he pretty much gave me anything I asked for which wasn't much beyond new wiring and paint. And keeping the creepy super away from me.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:30 PM
September 28, 2011 1:28 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Dibs the post is there but the widget is now gone?! Wtf is jon up to these days?
September 28, 2011 1:29 PM - Legion
the rent stabilized apartments are allowed to increase with every lease renewal based on a determination made by the rent regulatory board every year.
I believe last year's increases were 3% for a 1 yr lease and 6 % for a two year lease.

rent control is more arbitrary and is usually determined by who you know.

I think actress Faye Dunaway (who I'm a huge fan of) recently got into a legal battle over a rent controlled apt. in manhattan that was in her name but occupied by her son (she lives in Beverly Hills).
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:29 PM
September 28, 2011 1:30 PM - More4Less
so to be safe, I should charge 2501 and see I can get some couple making over $200k to rent my crown heights pad.

these rent and wage limits are totally bonkers - crazy shit that only exits here in NYC
September 28, 2011 1:31 PM - More4Less
randi, so Mr B unbanned you?
September 28, 2011 1:32 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: No i am banned. You don't have to be logged in to vote.
September 28, 2011 1:33 PM - minard lafever
that's a beautiful picture of Faye Dunaway. Movie stars are not real people.
September 28, 2011 1:33 PM - BoerumHillScott
Lots of cities in California have rent control.

From talking to friends, San Francisco has even stranger real estate laws than New York.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:33 PM
September 28, 2011 1:33 PM - jessibaby
Randi, I’m picturing you saying that with an ashamed face, like the fat kid who ate the half gallon of ice cream when mom wasn’t looking.
September 28, 2011 1:33 PM - dibs
randi, which thread?????
September 28, 2011 1:36 PM - dibs
OK...they just appeared....Price Wars was posted at 12:55 but I couldn't see it until just now.

What a crap site!!!!!!
September 28, 2011 1:37 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Will someone who can post over there please post on the price wars thread and ask where the voting widget went?
September 28, 2011 1:37 PM - dibs
Bette Davis said that Faye Dunaway was absolutely the worst, most obnoxious and inconsiderate bitch she ever worked with
September 28, 2011 1:38 PM - dibs
The voting widget is still there, randi.
September 28, 2011 1:38 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: LOL jessi....that is sort of what being banned from bstoner feels like!
September 28, 2011 1:39 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: No widget for me, it vanished once I voted.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:39 PM
September 28, 2011 1:39 PM - cobblehiller
Thank you, Minard. Yes, we are both much relieved to have a lease and a place. Now for the move....
September 28, 2011 1:40 PM - Legion
Minard,
She looks great in that photo.
I was watching Bonnie and Clyde the other night and couldn't keep my eyes off the screen when she was on.
September 28, 2011 1:40 PM - Biff Champion
"like the fat kid who ate the half gallon of ice cream when mom wasn’t looking."

Pretty much summarizes my entire childhood.
September 28, 2011 1:40 PM - minard lafever
Dave, LOL!
Bette Davis would certainly know about being bitchy I guess.

Edited at September 28, 2011 1:40 PM
September 28, 2011 1:41 PM - dibs
Cobble, I'll be interested in who you get to move you and the experience!!!
September 28, 2011 1:42 PM - boerumresident
m4L -- is your place a tax abated apartment? If so, I think (but am not sure) that the rent/wage caps that might trigger de-stabilization don't apply.
September 28, 2011 1:44 PM - minard lafever
Legion, Dunaway was great in the Three Musketeers movie as the evil countess or whatever. She can camp it up with the best of them.
She used to have a penthouse in the Eldorado.
September 28, 2011 1:45 PM - cobblehiller
"Cobble, I'll be interested in who you get to move you and the experience!!!"

DIBS, It will be Movers, Not Shakers. They've moved me and BH in the past a few times. They're excellent, and it will be a good experience unless something has dramatically changed with their business. Now if they would just call me back, we could get this party started! : P
September 28, 2011 1:46 PM - Legion
lol dave,
Betty Davis was probably upset that Faye got the rent stabilized apartment in Manhattan.
September 28, 2011 1:49 PM - Biff Champion
Speaking of old actresses, when they asked Greta Garbo why she chose to live in New York City, she said that New York was the only place where she could be left alone.
September 28, 2011 1:49 PM - Legion
"Legion, Dunaway was great in the Three Musketeers movie as the evil countess or whatever"

I remember it well, with Michale York and Oliver Reed.
When she went to the executioner's chopping block, I cursed Dumas.

Edited at September 28, 2011 1:49 PM
September 28, 2011 1:52 PM - More4Less
BR, I was poking fun at all this RS/RC caps - ie if I charge that high, no chance the aptmt becomes RS/RC. if I ask 2501, the place would have no takers - well unless a rich dumb moonface actual thinks it's prospect heights.
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:52 PM
September 28, 2011 1:52 PM - Biff Champion
I don't think I've ever met anyone who knows as much about movies as Legion.

He's like Richard Roeper, without the hot Asian girlfriend.
September 28, 2011 1:56 PM - Legion
biff,
If I knew film critics could get such hotties,
I wouldn't have wasted my time going through grad school !
Edited at September 28, 2011 1:56 PM
September 28, 2011 1:56 PM - More4Less
randi, the vote choices are there but no widget
September 28, 2011 1:58 PM - More4Less
I can see CGar studying hard on movies now - harder than he did for the bar exams.
September 28, 2011 1:59 PM - Biff Champion
Apparently Nancy Grace experienced a wardrobe malfunction on Dancing With the Stars the other day. Excuse #265 to not watch that show.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:01 PM
September 28, 2011 2:01 PM - boerumresident
m4L -- you never know with a moonface...
September 28, 2011 2:03 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
nancy grace vehemently denies nippage was shown. she said she was wearing a pasty!

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 2:03 PM
September 28, 2011 2:03 PM - dibs
Nancy Grace.....what an obnoxious woman.
September 28, 2011 2:04 PM - Legion
Hey DitmasDorthyParker,

Don't forget to tip the movers,
some of these outfits are really shady.
September 28, 2011 2:05 PM - Legion
Nancy Grace wardrobe malfunction?

I smell a class action lawsuit on the part of the viewers.
September 28, 2011 2:08 PM - cobblehiller
I've used Movers, Not Shakers 3 times in the past. BH has used them twice. I've recommended them to several friends. They are not shady, and they have done an excellent job for us in the past.

Oh, for crying out loud, legion, I wasn't born yesterday. I know I have to tip the movers!
September 28, 2011 2:14 PM - Biff Champion
Cobble, if you are open to considering other moving companies, I can give you the contact information for the last one I used (see picture below)
September 28, 2011 2:15 PM - dibs
Biff, I didn't know Mrs C wore one of those old style rice paddy hats!!!!!!!
September 28, 2011 2:15 PM - ij
Nancy Grace and Sam Waterston on L&O are so self-righteous, they make me root for the defendants.
September 28, 2011 2:16 PM - bxgrl
Great comment from Elizabeth Warren
September 28, 2011 2:17 PM - Biff Champion
DIBS, that hat manufacturer also specializes in water towers.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:17 PM
September 28, 2011 2:18 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Love it bxgrl
September 28, 2011 2:19 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
i did the man with a van thing from craigslist once and the guy was a no show. but i kept calling him being like im sitting here in the lobby with all my stuff and he kept promising he'd be leaving soon and that he was at his nieces birthday party. i called like three times and he kept saying he'd leave soon, then he turned his phone off. be careful with that. i had good luck with another group i found on craiglist except that they were smoking weed in the van on the way from harlem to brooklyn!

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 2:19 PM
September 28, 2011 2:19 PM - dibs
Yeah, we need more self serving socialists like Elizabeth Warren. I guess because she says there's a "social contract" then there is one.

Let me clue you in bxgrl, most towns and municipalities and countries (think China, Thailand, india, etc) build roads to ATTRACT industry.


September 28, 2011 2:20 PM - dibs
And she looks like a nutjob, too.
September 28, 2011 2:21 PM - Biff Champion
Speaking of nutjobs, nobody guessed who this is the other day...
September 28, 2011 2:21 PM - dibs
Is it Michael Moore????
September 28, 2011 2:22 PM - Deleted
bravo bxgrl ( and warren )

and any job creators that hold this country hostage and threaten to leave because taxes are raised should be shunned
September 28, 2011 2:23 PM - dibs
"and any job creators that hold this country hostage and threaten to leave because taxes are raised should be shunned"


What leftist drivel if I've ever heard it.
September 28, 2011 2:24 PM - denton
That was one of the most moronic speeches I ever saw, for so many reasons. THe part before that made sense, but not this. I'm leaving the shop, maybe I'll comment further when I get home.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:24 PM
September 28, 2011 2:25 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
jesus that woman could use a Tyra makeover greatly.

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 2:25 PM
September 28, 2011 2:25 PM - bxgrl
dibs- do you object because she spoke the truth or because she is a democrat?
September 28, 2011 2:25 PM - Biff Champion
Rush Limbaugh...same size, different wing.
September 28, 2011 2:26 PM - MontroseMorris
Elizabeth Warren is a socialist? Please. Just because you disagree with her is no reason to totally go off the rails. I thought she made perfect sense.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:26 PM
September 28, 2011 2:26 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
i kinda sorta agree with what her said, but there's no turning back now. and is "social contract" the new buzz word du jour or something? ive been hearing it non stop the last week or so. sounds like one of those phrases that are meant to guilt trip people.

*rob*

September 28, 2011 2:26 PM - bxgrl
Denton- Christie's speech? Tell why you think so.
September 28, 2011 2:27 PM - bxgrl
rob- it's becoming kind of a buzz word. Expect to be sick of hearing it in about 12 months.
September 28, 2011 2:27 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: No point in piling on Dave, he likes it too much,
September 28, 2011 2:28 PM - bxgrl
I'm beginning to think so, randi :)
September 28, 2011 2:28 PM - MontroseMorris
Who cares what she looks like? My God, we've become so superficial that one's looks determine whether or not you listen to her words?
September 28, 2011 2:31 PM - dibs
bxgrl, it's no where near the truth. it's an absolutely ridiculous point of view. In a developed country with rule of law, these things are what's expected. they pay their taxes, no more no less. She's a NUTJOB
September 28, 2011 2:33 PM - dibs
What she wants is to EXTRACT MORE out of a successful business after it has become successful. You expect that sort of thing in Indonesia and Zimbabwe and other god foresaken places of the world where corruption runs rampant.

The roads and police are called infrastructure. they are what a government provides in a developed country in order to ATTRACT business.

She's the worst form of opportunistic socialist.

Do you get it now????
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:35 PM
September 28, 2011 2:33 PM - Legion
biff,
is that "meathead" from All in the Family?
September 28, 2011 2:36 PM - Deleted
extract more? isn't the gov't just taking back the cut (that didn't work) 8 years ago?
September 28, 2011 2:37 PM - Deleted
and the people who make btw 250k - 999k get to keep their cut!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:37 PM
September 28, 2011 2:37 PM - dibs
dh, and you wonder why businesses are not in the mood to hire more people?????


You people really don't get it do you???????
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:37 PM
September 28, 2011 2:38 PM - Legion
...in essence what that lady is saying is this:

You keep working harder and I'll keep asking for more because I want it.
If not, I can always threaten some sort of "revolution" where we'll take everything and plunge society into a state of lawlessness and misery so we can start repeating all the mistakes again or worse.

Eventually you run out of other people's money lady.
Go sell cracy some place else.
September 28, 2011 2:38 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Who cares what she looks like? My God, we've become so superficial that one's looks determine whether or not you listen to her words?

omg calm down! i didnt call her ugly i just said she could use a tyra makeover. we could ALL use tyra makeovers btw!

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 2:38 PM
September 28, 2011 2:39 PM - Legion
err,
crazy.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:39 PM
September 28, 2011 2:40 PM - dibs
If I was a small business owner making $250-999,000 I would not hire ANYBODY due to the uncertainty.

You want a sure fire way to kick start hiring....PUT A MORATORIUM ON ALL REGULATIONS...HEALTHCARE, ENERGY, FINANCE, EPA, ETC, ETC,ETC FOR 5 YEARS.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:41 PM
September 28, 2011 2:40 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
and yes people listen more to the Tyras of the world than the frumplestilkin in that picture!

*rob*

September 28, 2011 2:41 PM - ij
There's no due diligence on how tax money gets spent.
September 28, 2011 2:41 PM - Deleted
"and you wonder why businesses are not in the mood to hire more people?????"

because they can make one person do the work of 2 because the job market is so shitty?
September 28, 2011 2:43 PM - Deleted
uncertainty? they already got their tax cuts and they STILLL didn't create jobs.

repubs put the TAINT in uncertainty
September 28, 2011 2:43 PM - dibs
"and yes people listen more to the Tyras of the world than the frumplestilkin in that picture!"

HE'S GOT A POINT THERE. I bet more of the anarchists watch Jersey Shore than anything newsworthy. None of them knew who Susan Sarandon was!!!!! LOL
September 28, 2011 2:43 PM - minard lafever
who did the comedy skit about how we no longer use the term "rich person" but rather "job creator".
September 28, 2011 2:44 PM - cobblehiller
"because they can make one person do the work of 2 because the job market is so shitty?"

DING, DING, DING, DING!! And for 1/3 less pay than 3-4 years ago!
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:44 PM
September 28, 2011 2:44 PM - Legion
The common thread through all these arguments from the far Left is this:
We currently live in a dismal state of exploitation and callousness from which we must be saved.
To what end? Who knows, but it sounds good to large swaths of people all too eager to grab something for nothing.


Edited at September 28, 2011 2:44 PM
September 28, 2011 2:45 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
because they can make one person do the work of 2 because the job market is so shitty?

yep. but sometimes that is a good thing. there's too many floaters out there. what's wrong with a business owner finding out that what three people used to do, it can now be done efficiently by one? i mean yeah it sucks for floaters, but not the business' bottom line.
like rachel from big brother says, "Floaters, get your life vests!!!"


*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 2:45 PM
September 28, 2011 2:46 PM - dibs
If I hire two hustlers or two go go boys instead of one, I do not ask for a cut in their wages or tips.

You Democrats think that because that's what you are all about. You have a low sense of self esteem from the handouts all your life.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:47 PM
September 28, 2011 2:46 PM - Biff Champion
"None of them knew who Susan Sarandon was!!!!!"

That's because she hasn't made a decent film in over 30 years and the crowd was mostly under 50.


Edited at September 28, 2011 2:46 PM
September 28, 2011 2:46 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
and Rachel won btw

*rob*

September 28, 2011 2:46 PM - minard lafever
cobble the house on Newkirk featured in the "other blog" is stunning. What a beautiful neighborhood you will be moving to!

Edited at September 28, 2011 2:46 PM
September 28, 2011 2:47 PM - BoerumHillScott
I still don't see how adjusting tax rates a few percentage points, keeping them well within historic ranges, is such a major philosophical issue.

(almost) everyone agrees that taxes are needed to pay for services an infrastructure the government provides.
Most of these grand arguments on both sides are over the scope of the taxes and services, and few mainstream politicians are advocating major shifts.

Both sides piss me off with the overblown rhetoric.
September 28, 2011 2:48 PM - bxgrl
Actually her point was responsibility. For all the republicans claim to be Patriots, they really don't seem to care about the average American citizen. She was dead on- and rich person = job creator? just another way to rephrase trickle-down economics. Voodoo economics as Bush Sr. rightly called it.
September 28, 2011 2:48 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Dibs it is plainly obvious that the latest republican social experiment- trickle down, low taxes, deregulation, unfunded wars, etc....FAILED. How about allowing progressives like Warren a chance to mop up after your mess?
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:48 PM
September 28, 2011 2:50 PM - Legion
Ask every person protesting down on Wall Street for instance, if they had the opportunity for free education, free food, free medicine and free housing if it was something they were in real need of.
I guarantee you that the programs were there for them if warranted.

Everything else is anger because Joe the Plumber expanded his business and now drives a Fischer electric car.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:50 PM
September 28, 2011 2:50 PM - dibs
So that's what you call them now????? "Progressives???"

ROTFLMMFAO


Edited at September 28, 2011 2:50 PM
September 28, 2011 2:50 PM - DeadCatBounce
"If I hire two hustlers or two go go boys instead of one, I do not ask for a cut in their wages or tips."

Is this the social contract everybody keeps talking about?
September 28, 2011 2:52 PM - Legion
...by the way,
the average American doesn't think we're moving in the right direction (0ver 70% by the latest polls).
Despite that, people like Ms. Warren want to continue in that direction and more, damn the people she
claims to be representing.
September 28, 2011 2:52 PM - bxgrl
Joe the Plumber? You mean Joe the Liar who parlayed a republican campaign ploy into a profit? Trust the Republicans to hype the very worst sort of people into "folk heroes", you betcha.
September 28, 2011 2:53 PM - dibs
I gotta save that Elizabeth Warren thing for the next time I need a really good laugh at how ridiculous people can be!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 28, 2011 2:53 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: And please, do tell- what are these handouts I am so used to? I am freelance so I pay for my health insurance, I can't get unemployment because I do all of my work on a 1099, I am not and never have been on food stamps or any other public subsidy, I went to and paid for a 4 year private university without any financial aid....so where has my free ride been? I am a union member so I guess you got me there.
September 28, 2011 2:54 PM - dibs
Can't stop laughing....


September 28, 2011 2:56 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Too bad the joke is on all of us Dave.
September 28, 2011 2:56 PM - bxgrl
Legion-Actually her position is closer to what the Average American thinks. The direction we're unhappy about is the partisanship and lack of cooperation in Congress and the involvement of politicians in our bedrooms and bodies. Otherwise why do republican candidates run on anti-gay platforms although the majority of the country is not against gay marriage? Why continue to push restrictions on abortion when the majority of the country believes in choice?
September 28, 2011 2:56 PM - dibs
She reminds me of the nuns from the seventies. All she needs is a guitar with one of those hanging signs made out of felt saying "Peace" with a dove at the altar behind her and start singing Kumbaya.
September 28, 2011 2:57 PM - dibs
"Legion-Actually her position is closer to what the Average American thinks. The direction we're unhappy about is the partisanship and lack of cooperation in Congress and the involvement of politicians in our bedrooms and bodies"

Where the hell does it say anything like that in what you pasted????? WHERE??????
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:57 PM
September 28, 2011 2:58 PM - Legion
bottom line,

All such arguments, whether they come from Warren or Alinsky lead to one place,
a societal structure which has been tried time and again with great failure.
But hey, maybe we can give it a go again just cause the kids haven't seen it fail for themselves
and this season's prime time shows are boring anyway.
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:58 PM
September 28, 2011 2:59 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Time and time again?
September 28, 2011 2:59 PM - Biff Champion
Kumbaya is a very overrated, annoying song both lyrically and musically.

Can't we officially replace it with Give Peace a Chance already?
Edited at September 28, 2011 2:59 PM
September 28, 2011 3:00 PM - dibs
yes, legion. i bet none of those anarchist know anything about world history. Hell, they didn't even know who Susan Sarandon was. It's like Jay Leno and Jaywalking...sad
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:00 PM
September 28, 2011 3:00 PM - DeadCatBounce
I can't get past this "underlying social contract" thing.
Who decided what it should say and when did we vote for it?
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:00 PM
September 28, 2011 3:01 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
She reminds me of the nuns from the seventies. All she needs is a guitar with one of those hanging signs made out of felt saying "Peace" with a dove at the altar behind her and start singing Kumbaya.

omg im dying of fucking laughter over here, everything one thinks im nuts

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 3:01 PM
September 28, 2011 3:01 PM - dibs
DCB, it's a figment of their imaginations. Forget about it and go eat your peas.
September 28, 2011 3:02 PM - Deleted
dave's attitude is why the repubs will lose in 2012. they aren't willing to have a civilized dialouge about anything. insults and talking points is all they can muster up.
September 28, 2011 3:02 PM - Legion
disagree bxgrl,

Give Americans a choice on the ballot:

A. No more prosperity, free cheese for everyone
and do as we say, or else.

or

B. Work hard, stay clean and you have a shot
and if things go really bad we'll help.

See what Americans will vote for.
September 28, 2011 3:02 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
someone needs to cut out her head and body outline to use it other photochops.

*rob*

September 28, 2011 3:03 PM - Biff Champion
There are certain politicians I wouldn't mind getting more involved with my bedroom and body.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:03 PM
September 28, 2011 3:05 PM - bxgrl
"and if things go really bad we'll help."

Legion, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be in the Republican talking points.

dibs- jsut as you inferred from what you read, so did I. And mine was much more accurate than yours.
September 28, 2011 3:05 PM - Legion
"Time and time again?"

randi,
were you protesting on Wall Street recently?
Europe's social democracy is falling apart at the seams as we speak.
The Germans are getting pissed off at all those folks wearing speedos on the Mediterranean.

.
September 28, 2011 3:07 PM - More4Less
randi, please say you were lying about being a union member like Pete
September 28, 2011 3:08 PM - BoerumHillScott
The hyperbole is flowing freely today.

Edited at September 28, 2011 3:09 PM
September 28, 2011 3:08 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: What DH said re repubs losing in 2012. I'm done for the day on this topic.
September 28, 2011 3:08 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: I am truly a union member, but it's a film industry union so not really the same thing.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:08 PM
September 28, 2011 3:09 PM - dibs
WRONG, bxgrl. I read it literally and she wants to exproprite money from businesses after they become successful and in addition to the regular taxes they pay.

THERE WAS NOTHING ABOUT "the partisanship and lack of cooperation in Congress and the involvement of politicians in our bedrooms and bodies."

Sorry, FAIL
September 28, 2011 3:09 PM - dibs
ROTFLMMFAO....


Edited at September 28, 2011 3:09 PM
September 28, 2011 3:10 PM - dibs
Here rob....


Edited at September 28, 2011 3:10 PM
September 28, 2011 3:10 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Scott, can you please stop Dibs from reposting that picture or just delete it. Very What like behavior if you ask me.
September 28, 2011 3:11 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
randi sells popcorn and goobers at the court street movie theatre

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 3:11 PM
September 28, 2011 3:12 PM - dibs
She bothers you too, doesn't she, randi???

Admit it


Edited at September 28, 2011 3:12 PM
September 28, 2011 3:13 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: The way your avatar is gawking at her bothers me.
September 28, 2011 3:13 PM - BoerumHillScott
OK, I'm logging off for a while.
Shit is getting too ugly and personal again.

Edited at September 28, 2011 3:13 PM
September 28, 2011 3:14 PM - dibs
"Yeah rob and I also get BJs from your dog."


Do you reciprocate, randi?????
September 28, 2011 3:14 PM - Legion
hey,
dogs are off limits on the OT!
:o(
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:14 PM
September 28, 2011 3:14 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: REDACTED by original poster
September 28, 2011 3:21 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Wtf are you talking Dave?

Anyone see moneyball? Pretty good, avoids sports movie cliches.
September 28, 2011 3:23 PM - jessibaby
What's Warren's job?
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:23 PM
September 28, 2011 3:23 PM - dibs
I've never been into bestiality, randi. you're the one who brought up your sexual relations with rob's dog

Pretty sick if you ask me. But then you're a union member, and a Democrat.
September 28, 2011 3:24 PM - bxgrl
Wrong, dave. That's your interpretation.
September 28, 2011 3:25 PM - bxgrl
ok- I'm with BHS. getting too ridiculous here.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:25 PM
September 28, 2011 3:26 PM - dibs
She' s a Harvard Law Professor and is running for the Senate in MA. She has absolutely no real world experience running a business. Given that, she was also an advisor to Obama, of course.
September 28, 2011 3:27 PM - dibs
bxgrl...that;s what she wrote. it's NOT an interpretation. man you can be obtuse at times. everyone else knew it for what it was as well.


Edited at September 28, 2011 3:28 PM
September 28, 2011 3:27 PM - DeadCatBounce
Randi, which film local are you in? IA 52? IA 600? Scenic Artists 829? Teamsters 817?
Serious question.
September 28, 2011 3:29 PM - jessibaby
Where's StevieB? Ha
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:29 PM
September 28, 2011 3:29 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Iatse local 700. Film editors.
September 28, 2011 3:30 PM - bxgrl
No dave, that's what you think she wrote- and only you and your right wing buddies saw it that way. Insult me personally one more time and i will delete you.
September 28, 2011 3:33 PM - dibs
bxgrl...read what she wrote. she wants successful businesses to pay more than what they are required to pay now, which would be their taxes...all sorts of them. She thinks they "owe" it because the roads and the police are there.

that's akin to profit expropriation.

it's right here in black and white......
September 28, 2011 3:34 PM - dibs
It says nothing about partisanship and lack of cooperation in Congress.

CAPICHE??????
September 28, 2011 3:35 PM - jessibaby
Yeah, Dave, just read her wiki page. I think people like her, with zero business experience, should be ashamed of themselves trying to alter financial policy. At first blush, I liked her quote but when u break it down, it doesn't make any sense.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:35 PM
September 28, 2011 3:36 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Dave I think she means all businesses, not just successful ones. Not that it changes much in regards to our disagreement, but I don't think she is saying to only tax success. I think the idea is to put the corporate tax rate back where it used to be during the Reagan Clinton eras before W came in and mucked it all up.
September 28, 2011 3:36 PM - DeadCatBounce
Bxgrl, please do not abuse your power to delete.
September 28, 2011 3:37 PM - jessibaby
Film editor? Cha-Ching!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:37 PM
September 28, 2011 3:37 PM - dibs
She's a Harvard Law professor. By definition that means liberal left, she just takes it to extremes.
September 28, 2011 3:38 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: The argument that our leaders have to be business people is so stupid. W was a terrible business man and look where that left us!
September 28, 2011 3:38 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Jessi, you really think so? It's not like being a hedge fund manager or flea market entrepreneur .
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:38 PM
September 28, 2011 3:39 PM - DeadCatBounce
What does Film editor? Cha-Ching!! mean?
(Thanks for the info by the way Randi)
September 28, 2011 3:40 PM - dibs
Yes, a film editor would have a much better grasp of the business world.
September 28, 2011 3:40 PM - bxgrl
Jessi- it goes to how a country needs to function. Republicans love to talk about American exceptionalism and Patriotism but want business and corporations to be countries unto themselves. Can't have it both ways.
September 28, 2011 3:41 PM - dibs
"W was a terrible business man and look where that left us!"

Still trotting out Bush as the culprit, randi???? pathetic.

Who you going to blame in 2015 if Obama gets re-elected?????
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:41 PM
September 28, 2011 3:43 PM - dibs
"Republicans love to talk about American exceptionalism and Patriotism but want business and corporations to be countries unto themselves"

And Democrats see them as ATM machines. Which is why they move offshore. hell, they can't even repatriate their profits.

At least people who understand what's going on have the wherewithall to invest in overseas markets.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:44 PM
September 28, 2011 3:44 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Did I say I want to go into politics? I mean can you really argue that the alignment of govt and big business has been a good thing for the country? NO!

I think the easiest and best change to politics we could make as a nation is make it a level playing field- all candidates get the same (infinitely smaller) amount of money to campaign on and also limit the length of campaigns. We need our officials to do the work we elected them to do, not spend most of their time raising cash for the next round.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:44 PM
September 28, 2011 3:44 PM - jessibaby
Film editors make good $, as I understand it. TV and film editors in general do.

Being a business person doesnt guaranty that u get it, but being a lawyer almost guarantees that you dont.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:44 PM
September 28, 2011 3:45 PM - MontroseMorris
"dave's attitude is why the repubs will lose in 2012. they aren't willing to have a civilized dialouge about anything. insults and talking points is all they can muster up."

Truer words were never spoken, DH.

Throughout all of this, I have yet to see where Elizabeth Warren, Barak Obama, or anyone here on this OT has EVER said anything about giving anyone something for nothing. You guys go into a full blown, foam at the mouth froth over these people, but you're making the entire thing up. Not only that, since you really don't have a position to stand behind, except that Warren, etc are "nutjobs", you resort to name calling and belittling people, and high-fiving each other over your so-called "wit".

I really have other things to do, and reading this is not fun. As usual, you take everything too far.
September 28, 2011 3:45 PM - cobblehiller
DIBS, now you're just being gross. Very low class!
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:45 PM
September 28, 2011 3:46 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: W is just a convenient example of a shitty business man turned shitty president. I do not blame him for our problems today. I blame that mostly on the republicans in the house and senate, and Obama for being naive and wasting his time with bipartisanship approach to getting sht done.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:46 PM
September 28, 2011 3:47 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
quote:
Dave I think she means all businesses

yeah, in the front. but when she turns around i bet you there's a party going on in the back!

*rob*

Edited at September 28, 2011 3:47 PM
September 28, 2011 3:48 PM - bxgrl
DCB- a few days ago, BHS asked us to stop the personal insults in discussions. He is very upset by them and said he considered taking down the site because of it. So I'm not the one abusing anything.
September 28, 2011 3:50 PM - dibs
Cobble, what are you talking about??? If it's the dog comment, it was randi who brought that up.


September 28, 2011 3:52 PM - More4Less
Randi, now I understand the secret sauce behind your mack mojo. film editor biz card can be big draw to the honeys
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:52 PM
September 28, 2011 3:53 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Before shit really hits the fan, can I make a plea for everyone to take a deep breath and maybe walk around the block once or twice? I'd hate to see this implode. If Scott is truly thinking about taking down the site, it'd be a real shame to have that happen over this type of back and forth stuff.
September 28, 2011 3:55 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
what was the dog comment? the blow job comment? that doesnt offend me, i dont care if people make fun of my dog.

*rob*

September 28, 2011 3:56 PM - bxgrl
I agree, snaps. There's no reason we can't have spirited, discussions or disagreements without personal insults. We are adults here.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:56 PM
September 28, 2011 3:56 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
And just in case it may make any of you smile, I'm happy to admit that I'm listening to Kajagoogoo right now :-)
September 28, 2011 3:58 PM - Deleted
Anybody miss me?

BTW: that was #4.
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:58 PM
September 28, 2011 3:58 PM - dibs
The problem here is that bxgrl throws up the Elizabeth Warren comment and then takes no ownership of it. It's a distorted view of the way this country operates and it has nothing to do with politics or bipartisanship as she later said it was about. it's about wealth redistribution, otherwise known as socialism.


I'm tired of bxgrl and her high horse and the fact that she can't seem to understand what she oftentimes says or posts. Upon any criticism she won't own up to what she says and in this case can't seem to discuss the words that Warren spoke.

It's ridiculous
Edited at September 28, 2011 3:58 PM
September 28, 2011 3:58 PM - More4Less
Time to pass out the brownies - the ones that have the calming effect
September 28, 2011 3:59 PM - dibs
"I agree, snaps. There's no reason we can't have spirited, discussions or disagreements without personal insults. We are adults here."

Like I just posted, address the issues in the Warren statement.
September 28, 2011 4:00 PM - bxgrl
Democrats don't see businesses and corporations as ATMs. They see them as part of our country that wants to have all the power without any of the responsibility for it. One thing Warren left out- Americans are the consumers the buy the goods and services to keep business successful. when there are no people working, they won't be consumers. Until businesses and corporations see the advantages of reinvesting in this country, our economy will be a bust. And no one, not Obama, or Rick Perry or any President will be able to improve things.
September 28, 2011 4:01 PM - cobblehiller
If paying slightly higher taxes is socialist, then why didn't you leave the country after the early 90s when they raised the tax rates, DIBS? It's ridiculous to be all foaming at the mouth about this minor increase. It will make zero difference to the brackets effected. No one will go hungry, no one won't take a vacation, no one won't be able to retire, no one won't be able to send their kids to private school. Besides the rates have been MUCH higher in the past. This is so minor it's absurd to watch people get so outraged!
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:01 PM
September 28, 2011 4:01 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
How about we just forget Elizabeth Warren for now? And let's forget about who may be right or wrong. This is the one time I'll agree to chocolate...pass out those weed brownies, M4L!
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:01 PM
September 28, 2011 4:01 PM - More4Less
if brownies wont work and given it's 4pm now, hand jobs anyone???? not from me though. look to your left for that
September 28, 2011 4:02 PM - Legion
The problem with Harvard academics making business policy is this:
Having never funded, opened, started, fostered, closed, expanded or managed a buiness
these people only see it as a monolithic and theoretical construct.

They don't understand that commerce/trade/business are an outgrowth of human productivity and at the base of many advanced societies.
The spice route through the middle east to the far east wasn't there as a business venture it was a natural extension of human endeavors.

Once the Left understands that the free markets are based on human potential not destruction
they will realize why it's so sensitive to negative feedback and why talk of re-arranging it's basic structure
and management is akin to telling a worker you just hired that they better hurry up and produce more
because you'll be taking away a larger percentage of their labors next week.
September 28, 2011 4:03 PM - dibs
"Until businesses and corporations see the advantages of reinvesting in this country, our economy will be a bust. "

I spoke to this issue earlier. There will be VERY LITTLE reinvestment in this country with the looming Energy, EPA, Financial, NLRB and Healthcare regulations. Sorry.

Apple manufactures offshore for reasons. I just posted 5 of them. The NLRB one recently was the most preposterous of all. they are overly onerous.
September 28, 2011 4:03 PM - bxgrl
Dave- I owned it- just because I don't agree with what you say doesn't mean anything other than I have my own opinion and my right to it. Don't like it? Too fucking bad. You have every right to ignore it. But call me names and it's a different story. That's the biggest complaint about you, here and on brownstoner. You invariably descend into namecalling and personal; insults, then you wonder why people complain. It's called cause and effect.
September 28, 2011 4:03 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Ok...I tried. I'm out. Try not to kill each other...
September 28, 2011 4:04 PM - gay smurf hoodlum
i bought a bag of snickers bars for the office before for the office... never tried peanut butter snickers before. YUM!

*rob*

September 28, 2011 4:06 PM - dibs
"That's the biggest complaint about you, here and on brownstoner. You invariably descend into namecalling and personal; insults, then you wonder why people complain. It's called cause and effect."

And you're the one who just posted "Too fucking bad."

Nice. POT = KETTLE I was going to delete your post but I'll leave it for the others to see.

I'm done with you for today. I'm pretty sure, i won on the Warren issue.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:07 PM
September 28, 2011 4:06 PM - bxgrl
Legion- as you well know, there are 2 sides to everything. Stop blaming the left for everything wrong with this country- the right has done more than it's fair share to screw it up. And talk about not owning up to something, well dibs- there it is.
September 28, 2011 4:07 PM - Legion
It is even more troublesome when everyone doesn't have skin in the game so to speak.

Adding insult to injury, these people demand more from those already paying while
spending more than the previous 42 administrations combined!

Stop the spending
Stop the baseline budgeting which adds another 240 billion yearly to the federal budget
Start enacting a balanced budget amendment and then
maybe,
we should talk about raising taxes once prosperity comes back.
September 28, 2011 4:07 PM - More4Less
taxes and regulations hurt but biggest issues most small businesses face is a lack of demand.
September 28, 2011 4:08 PM - dibs
"Adding insult to injury, these people demand more from those already paying while
spending more than the previous 42 administrations combined!"

Exactly.
September 28, 2011 4:09 PM - More4Less
this resembles our lovely congress - ie my way or the highway. only diff is there is no worries about re-election
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:09 PM
September 28, 2011 4:09 PM - bxgrl
Too fucking bad? That isn't a personal insult- which is what BHS was referring to the other day.

Think whatever you want. The problem is that declaring yourself the winner is a very empty victory, dibs.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:09 PM
September 28, 2011 4:12 PM - Legion
where's benson,

...he still owes us 6 posts.
September 28, 2011 4:13 PM - bxgrl
Legion- everyone has skin in this game when it comes to this country. And without raising revenues, we'll starve ourselves to death before prosperity comes back. Because it won't.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:13 PM
September 28, 2011 4:15 PM - More4Less
Victors get to write / re-write history. Per recent history, all losers across the parties. no winners. it's been a debate of who fucked up more. So really, no qualified person to ride the high horse - ie all walking in poop.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:15 PM
September 28, 2011 4:16 PM - Legion
bxgrl,
I understand how the federal government might think it would starve with only 2-3 trillion in tax revenue yearly
but I don't have too much sympathy for them when I read about things like
-cash for clunkers
-stimulus for companies like Solyndra
or
-payments to nations which do not have our best interests in mind
September 28, 2011 4:18 PM - More4Less
Christie - please runnnnnnnnnnnnnnn now; not 2016
September 28, 2011 4:20 PM - Deleted
you all done jerking each other off?
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:20 PM
September 28, 2011 4:21 PM - MontroseMorris
"I'm pretty sure, i won on the Warren issue."

Yelling louder than everyone else doesn't mean you've won. It only means the veins in your neck are standing out, your blood pressure has risen, and you've turned red in the face. Congratulations.
September 28, 2011 4:22 PM - jessibaby
Dave, did u respond to Cobble yet?
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:22 PM
September 28, 2011 4:22 PM - dibs
Is it really solely about raising revenue?????

NO. Why is it you people can't understand that????

The Federal government could probably retire 20% of the workforce and cut costs dramatically. they'd still get their beloved pensions and benefits but the budget would be more balanced.
September 28, 2011 4:22 PM - Legion
..is this a good time for a punfest?


September 28, 2011 4:23 PM - bxgrl
legion- I certainly agree we have spent billions in the wrong things- but that is not only this government, but every single one of them. I hardly dare mention Bush, but what the heck? Iraq, kissing up to Pakistan, kissing the butts of the Saudis. Blackwater, Halliburton etc. I have my issues with how much we give to Israel too, but at least they aren't sending terrorists over here or shooting at our soldiers.
September 28, 2011 4:25 PM - dibs
We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan and kissing Pakistan. there's been a new president for what, 3 years.

We should be kissing the Saudis, we need their oil. Israel has nothing we need. maybe some technology that we buy.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:26 PM
September 28, 2011 4:25 PM - Biff Champion
Andy Rooney's leaving 60 minutes after this Sunday.
September 28, 2011 4:25 PM - bxgrl
Yes, DH. I'm done. Yes, legion, but you'll have to start one. I have somewhere to go :)
September 28, 2011 4:26 PM - More4Less
"you all done jerking each other off?"

DH, when snappy left, it messed up the circle jerk arrangement so no hand jobs took place.
September 28, 2011 4:27 PM - dibs
And Mullen just testified before the Senate and said that the pakis orchestrated the terrorist rids in Afghanistan and Obama STILL won't pull the plug on them or call them out for what they are.
September 28, 2011 4:28 PM - Biff Champion
"..is this a good time for a punfest?"

Yes, but it may prevent Benson from getting to #10.
September 28, 2011 4:28 PM - Arkady
Too much abstraction here today. I've been having to deal w/ real-world problems. First had to go to the d-word because I'd lost a crown on a front tooth & have the 50th reunion this weekend- my guy is orthodox & won't be around until after high holidays. He has 2 offices so I had to schlep to Coney Isl. & trains were screwed up so it took for-ever. Strolled the boardwalk for a mile on the way back to unwind a bit.
Came home to notice from EPA that I have to get new drain from house to street & mustn't use main waste pipe until repairs are made! I'm the asshole who phoned in about the damned hole in the street & caused the inspection because I was worried about an old guy who nearly broke his leg in it the other day.
You have to phone EPA before getting work done but their office closes at 2 & I wasn't home until 3. A neighbor got the same notice so it could be their problem & not mine at all.
I'd like to just phone for estimates - I have two strong recommendations for the work. Whole thing sucks.
September 28, 2011 4:28 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Ahem...I don't do hand jobs!

I'm just lurking, waiting for all the anger to dissipate.
September 28, 2011 4:29 PM - Biff Champion
DIBS, what do you know about kissing up to foreigners?
September 28, 2011 4:30 PM - jessibaby
Question: Dave, why can't taxes be raised on hedge finders who ha e no intention to start a business and will not spend less due to these tax increases.
Answer: because I work for a hedge fund.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:30 PM
September 28, 2011 4:30 PM - Arkady
Saudis??? Surely you jest! They supplied the manpower for 9/11 Inshallah.
September 28, 2011 4:31 PM - Legion
bxgrl,
I don't disagree with you on that.
Looking back, I agree that in the future, we better be damned sure there's a good reason for going into a country with boots on the ground.
I'm for cutting our reliance on middle eastern oil BIG time.
I'm addressing there here and now though.
Do we continue to spend outrageously and demand squeeze our business/entrepeneur class more?
or
Do we get down to business and manage the economy to create prosperity again?
September 28, 2011 4:32 PM - Arkady
I saw heated discussions but no personal attacks in all the foregoing. Scott is not a native NY-er so he's more sensitive: take it easier on each other - I don't want him to kill our gathering place.
September 28, 2011 4:32 PM - boerumresident
Using the term "pakis" isn't helping your cause, DIBS.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:32 PM
September 28, 2011 4:32 PM - dibs
So Arkady, how are they going to stop you from using your waste pipe?????
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:32 PM
September 28, 2011 4:34 PM - dibs
BR...they are not our friends. i'll call them what I please. is it any worse than calling the french "frenchies?" No, it isn't. Don't be so sensitive.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:34 PM
September 28, 2011 4:34 PM - Bedstuymaven
I have a stupid question. How do you not use main waste pipe?
September 28, 2011 4:34 PM - CGar
Did you say something about Kissing up...
September 28, 2011 4:34 PM - CGar
...to Foreigners?
September 28, 2011 4:35 PM - BoerumHillScott
Just checking in.

I have no intention whatsoever in killing this site.
I just don't want to participate in the kind of dialog that happened this afternoon.


September 28, 2011 4:36 PM - Biff Champion
CGar, that was a Cheap Trick
September 28, 2011 4:36 PM - Arkady
I have no idea how to not use the main waste except to not flush nor wash clothes nor dishes. I'm not sure how they might be able to tell - I doubt they can but they threaten substantial fines. My neighbor is hosting 12 people for holiday dinner tonight - can't see all of them using the bushes in the back yard some how.
September 28, 2011 4:37 PM - jessibaby
Arkady, sorry about ur teeth. When I first read your post I thought you had an orthodox BF and you were bringing him to the reunion.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:37 PM
September 28, 2011 4:38 PM - CGar
"I don't want him to kill our gathering place"

Nothing will kill our gathering place...
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:38 PM
September 28, 2011 4:38 PM - CGar
...Puma
September 28, 2011 4:38 PM - More4Less
CGar, stop clowning around here and go study movies!!!!! Biff can explain why
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:38 PM
September 28, 2011 4:39 PM - Not_Logged_In
Randolph: Yeah this all went south when Dave started making things up about me and robs dog. Disgusting :)
September 28, 2011 4:39 PM - Arkady
We need to coin a new word for the concept of punning w/ record album covers. (BTW, what will happen to the art of record/tape/cd covers when everything's just downloaded? A dying discipline.)
September 28, 2011 4:40 PM - denton
"Denton- Christie's speech? Tell why you think so."

No Bxgirl. That retarded factory speech Warren gave.

I do think she's attractive, however.
September 28, 2011 4:40 PM - minard lafever
Arkady, just be glad they are not forcing you to relocate 'til the drain is fixed.

Edited at September 28, 2011 4:40 PM
September 28, 2011 4:40 PM - More4Less
Arkady, if you ever wish to switch D-Word, mine in Chinatown is pretty good - opens on Sunday's too
September 28, 2011 4:41 PM - DeadCatBounce
Congratulations to Benson and Legion.
The attacks on DIBS today are a direct result of you guys upping your (rhetorical) game here.
Dave has always been made of Teflon -- could say anything and never get called on it. I really think he was rather contained today, and actually made some excellent points.
But since you 2 have become such a class act here, you really couldn't get jumped. And that left Dave as the Conservative in the Bulls Eye.
Way to go.
September 28, 2011 4:41 PM - Biff Champion
"We need to coin a new word for the concept of punning w/ record album covers."

Spunning?

(spinning records and punning)
September 28, 2011 4:42 PM - CGar
You're a Prince...
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:42 PM
September 28, 2011 4:42 PM - CGar
...Biff
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:42 PM
September 28, 2011 4:42 PM - More4Less
shit, I just checked and the mkt is down 180. wasn't it up 180 or something before?? man, mkt girates more than JLo
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:42 PM
September 28, 2011 4:42 PM - boerumresident
yes it is worse when you are talking about a people that were/are historically discriminated against (or in their case, colonized). If you are using the term frenchies to demean the frenco-canadian speakers in New Hampshire/Maine -- then maybe not but that's probably not what you talking about.
September 28, 2011 4:43 PM - jessibaby
Randi, stirring the pot as per usual. :)
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:43 PM
September 28, 2011 4:44 PM - Biff Champion
"You're a Prince..."

U2
September 28, 2011 4:44 PM - Legion
lol M4L

thanks DCB,
I've been reading the new bestseller:
How to win Friends and Influence Others on the OT
(without calling someone a MOFO)

...truthfully, I think today's "debates" were rather timid.
September 28, 2011 4:44 PM - dibs
NIce, randi, class act.

I still have your quote about getting a BJ from rob's dog...truly disgusting, even for someone in the film industry!!!!!
September 28, 2011 4:45 PM - Deleted
ugh - U2

anyone else hate them?
September 28, 2011 4:45 PM - Biff Champion
Anyone have plans for Rush Hoshana?
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:45 PM
September 28, 2011 4:46 PM - dibs
dh, trying sooo hard to be an avante garde music lover.
September 28, 2011 4:46 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Sooooo...Arkady's got waste pipe issues, eh? I heard there were slugs seen nearby :-)
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:46 PM
September 28, 2011 4:46 PM - More4Less
this one is for you CGar
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:46 PM
September 28, 2011 4:46 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Very much over U2. And Coldplay now too.
September 28, 2011 4:47 PM - Deleted
one doesn't need to be avant garde to think U2 sucks
September 28, 2011 4:48 PM - Biff Champion
"Very much over U2. And Coldplay now too."

Have a Heart.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:48 PM
September 28, 2011 4:48 PM - CGar
I just R.E.M.embered I'm having dinner at my stepbrother's.
September 28, 2011 4:48 PM - Deleted
anyone ever see that south park episode where they make fun of Bono for being the biggest turd in the world?
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:48 PM
September 28, 2011 4:49 PM - More4Less
any shot of getting tix for when Jay Z opens Barclay center? I don't think so but here's to hoping
September 28, 2011 4:49 PM - boerumresident
One of the funniest parodies I saw in the last few years was the Fruit of the Loom commercial in the style of a Coldplay video.
September 28, 2011 4:50 PM - Biff Champion
"anyone ever see that south park episode where they make fun of Bono for being the biggest turd in the world?"

Yes
September 28, 2011 4:50 PM - CGar
Snappy's trying to do a Hatchet job on our spunning
September 28, 2011 4:50 PM - More4Less
I don't hate U2 but they haven't put out any new good shit forever already
September 28, 2011 4:51 PM - Biff Champion
"I don't hate U2 but they haven't put out any new good shit forever already"

It seems like nothing will ever Police you people...
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:51 PM
September 28, 2011 4:51 PM - CGar
I like Coldplay, especially on a ...
September 28, 2011 4:52 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
" they haven't put out any new good shit forever "

precisely the point...their new stuff is garbage. gotta go back many years for songs of theirs worth listening to.
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:52 PM
September 28, 2011 4:52 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
I'm not killing it! Just can't participate from work. Don't wanna save images on work computer.
September 28, 2011 4:53 PM - CGar
*rob* hasn't been himself since he found Beatles in his apartment...
September 28, 2011 4:54 PM - Biff Champion
Snappy, would that put you in Dire Straits?
September 28, 2011 4:55 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
nutball ;-)
September 28, 2011 4:55 PM - Legion
Where'd all the women of the OT go?
Some Girls are just sensitive to political discussions I guess. :o(
September 28, 2011 4:56 PM - dibs
I've got plans tonight after a nice Chinese dinner....
September 28, 2011 4:56 PM - CGar
I have to leave for dinner, much as I hate to spun and...
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:56 PM
September 28, 2011 4:56 PM - Biff Champion
Legion, comments like that will make you Public Enemy #1
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:56 PM
September 28, 2011 4:57 PM - Biff Champion
This would be much easier without having to post album covers...

Maybe that's the Cure
September 28, 2011 4:58 PM - CGar
Snappy, before I go, gimme a big...
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:58 PM
September 28, 2011 4:58 PM - Legion
....it's ok biff,
I've got a License to Ill
Edited at September 28, 2011 4:58 PM
September 28, 2011 4:59 PM - Biff Champion
Something DIBS has never been into...
September 28, 2011 5:00 PM - Biff Champion
Sign on DIBS' bedroom
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:00 PM
September 28, 2011 5:00 PM - InsertSnappyNameHere
Just finished listening to 'Tempted' by Squeeze. Love that song. In case it wasn't obvious, I'm in the midst of an 80's alternative fix :-) Anyone got any Echo & the Bunnymen cds I can borrow?
September 28, 2011 5:00 PM - More4Less
this spunning is going to overload the site's hosting limits on capacity
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:00 PM
September 28, 2011 5:01 PM - dibs
Snappy, my first real bf, the Chamorran, introduced me to Squeeze and a lot of those bands in the early 80s
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:02 PM
September 28, 2011 5:01 PM - Biff Champion
M4L, good point. We should Styx to the basics...
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:01 PM
September 28, 2011 5:02 PM - denton
The first problem with Warren is the same as the other politicians, left or right. She's a damn lawyer and as such has probably never seen or worked in a factory in her entire life. Just like all the other politicians spewing pap about 'small business' or 'family farms'. They don't have a clue.

The main problem with her dumbass rant is she picked a really bad target. If she would have complained about people who sit in front of their computers all day creating CDOs or swaps or shit, then she might have made some sense. But to pick on a guy who opens a factory? You gotta be kidding.

G-d bless ANYONE who opens an actual factory that makes actual goods using actual American workers. She should get on her hands and knees and thank them, or better. And most states know this which is why they spend millions of dollars attracting companies that build factories. Factories employ a wide spectrum of individuals, unlike hedge funds.

Now, let's look at what that factory owner is gonna pay in taxes. He's gonna pay real estate taxes at a higher commercial rate. Most likely as a 'C' corp, he will pay taxes twice. His corp will pay taxes on the profits, and then when he pays himself a share of those profits, or distributes it amongst his workers as bonuses, they will be taxed again. He will also pay unemployment tax, twice the FICA tax that most people pay, taxes on his utilities. Since he owns a factory, he will have OSHA, the EPA, the Dept of Labor, and various other agencies up his ass on a regular basis,. Then he'll probably have to deal with a union effort at some point.

I have no problem with letting the Bush tax cuts expire, and i have no problem with taxing the wealthy at a higher rate. But to go after a hypothetical factory owner is just plain stupid, given that he will be paying his fair share in taxes.

Tax the idle rich, not the productive people who create jobs for one and all.

Moronic.



Edited at September 28, 2011 5:02 PM
September 28, 2011 5:03 PM - denton
Of course the SENSIBLE part of the speech, where Warren talked about how we got the budget deficit, seems to have been ignored.
September 28, 2011 5:04 PM - dibs
Thank you, denton. bxgrl seems to think it was about partisanship
September 28, 2011 5:05 PM - Biff Champion
You Talking Heads still at it?
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:05 PM
September 28, 2011 5:06 PM - jessibaby
Denton for President!
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:06 PM
September 28, 2011 5:08 PM - Deleted
# 5 (from Metro North)


BTW: thanks DCB! I'm trying.
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:08 PM
September 28, 2011 5:08 PM - denton
And of course dibs is right. One of the few jobs that government MUST do, is to create a tolerable infrastructure to allow for economic growth. Looks at the powerful growth unleashed when the railroads were built across country. Ditto the interstate highway system.
September 28, 2011 5:09 PM - cobblehiller
"Tax the idle rich"

Like DIBS, who will be retired shortly! : P
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:09 PM
September 28, 2011 5:10 PM - jessibaby
Spewing pap is truly a disgusting thought though.
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:10 PM
September 28, 2011 5:11 PM - CGar
Did I miss something? Is dave now...
September 28, 2011 5:11 PM - dibs
Cobble, when I retire I'm gonna wallow in how little taxes I'll be paying. You can be sure that I'll report to you on it every year. Secondly, i can't wait to itemize everything i spend my SS money on. it'll be mostly hustlers and alcohol and the rest I'll just waste.
September 28, 2011 5:12 PM - denton
jessi, I'd have to take the 'gay' test first. I like Madonna so don't know if I'd pass.
September 28, 2011 5:13 PM - denton
snappy, I got the Smiths' 'Strangeway' album, according to my database. I have 'Meat' but only on vinyl. Love that record.

Also should have Morrisey's 'Boxers'.

Drop me a line if you want to borrow them.
September 28, 2011 5:13 PM - CGar
m4l, thanks for posting the Asian hottie. There's a brownie with your name on it...

And rest assured I'm well-versed in my movies, though I'm no...
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:13 PM
September 28, 2011 5:14 PM - Legion
snort,
CGar!
September 28, 2011 5:16 PM - CGar
L'shana Tova everyone, whether you're agnostically Jewish, culturally Jewish, Jewish by injection, Jewish by geography of living in New York, or Orthodox like Cobble.
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:17 PM
September 28, 2011 5:16 PM - CGar
Legion, you're clearly spending too much time with Cobble!!
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:16 PM
September 28, 2011 5:17 PM - jessibaby
Wow. That pap smear is named after George papanokolaui (sp). Somehow I'd pass on the honorific had that been the thing I invented.
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:17 PM
September 28, 2011 5:20 PM - More4Less
Ashton Demi marriage is over but it lasted longer than expected:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/demi_boots_cheater_ashton_OdzEmNG2agUrDvLUFQOmzJ

onto the next new boy toy
September 28, 2011 5:21 PM - Legion
CGar,
sometimes my attempts at humor go down like a :
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:21 PM
September 28, 2011 5:22 PM - Legion
M4L,
who was that hottie you posted earlier?
September 28, 2011 5:22 PM - dibs
dh.....READ THIS.....

Smokers Quit With Cheap Remedy Used in Bulgaria for 40 Years

Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- For as little as $6, there may be a smoking-cessation remedy that actually works.
A clinical test of Tabex, sold in Eastern Europe for more than four decades, shows that the plant-based medicine can triple smokers’ chances of quitting compared with a dummy pill.
The results of a study on 740 people were published today in the New England Journal of Medicine.
The tablet, developed and sold by Bulgaria’s Sopharma AD, may help smokers with limited means quit, scientists said. Most of the 6 million people who die from tobacco use each year are from low- and middle-income countries, according to the World Health Organization.
“The benefits of Tabex are comparable with those of other smoking-cessation treatments, but at a fraction of the cost,”
Robert West of University College London’s Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, who led the research team, said in a statement.
“Stopping smoking can be extremely difficult,” West said, and the study’s results suggest Tabex could become “a practical option even for the poorest smokers.”
In India, where 20 cigarettes cost about $1.10, a course of nicotine-replacement therapy costs about $150 and smoking- cessation drugs as much as $200, West and his colleagues wrote.
In the study, 8.4 percent of patients taking Tabex for 25 days with “minimal” counseling abstained from smoking for a year, compared with 2.4 percent of those given a placebo. The smokers who took the plant-based remedy reported more gastrointestinal upset, the research shows.

Yellow Flowers

Tabex tablets contain cytisine, a substance found in the seeds of a tree called laburnum that produces yellow pea- flowers, which mimics the effect of nicotine.
Pfizer Inc.’s Chantix, a smoking-cessation drug available in the U.S. and Europe on prescription, is also derived from cytisine. One week’s worth of tablets for a patient taking three a day costs about $63 on the website drugstore.com.
The absolute difference in rates of tobacco abstinence between the two patient groups in the Tabex study was lower than for Chantix and similar to what has been found for nicotine- replacement therapy, the scientists wrote. University College London’s Cancer Research U.K. Health Behaviour Research Centre and the Cancer Center and Institute of Oncology in Warsaw conducted the research.
Extab Corp. has licensed global rights to Tabex and is conducting clinical trials designed to meet the standards of Western regulators, the Delaware-incorporated company said on its website. Extab is run by Sopharma Chief Executive Officer Ognian Donev; Rick Stewart, former CEO of Amarin Corp.; and Anthony Clarke, a researcher with a focus on neurology, psychiatry and pain management, with the goal of winning regulatory approval for Tabex, according to the website.



Edited at September 28, 2011 5:22 PM
September 28, 2011 5:22 PM - More4Less
CGar, Maggie Q is mixed (vietnamese and irish I think). are you ok she's not pure bred 100% asian?
September 28, 2011 5:24 PM - CGar
No problem at all, m4l. Now I'm really outta...
September 28, 2011 5:24 PM - Biff Champion
DIBS isn't AC/DC. He's still the same old...
September 28, 2011 5:28 PM - Biff Champion
Speaking of people who have been idle for awhile...
September 28, 2011 5:29 PM - More4Less
Legion, she's maggie q. she plays Nikita on cwb's series. she's been on movies here & there - mission impossible; most recently think she in "Priest"
September 28, 2011 5:31 PM - Biff Champion
I wonder what former hockey player Steve Duchesne has invented that can be named in his honour.
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:31 PM
September 28, 2011 5:42 PM - bxgrl
No dave- partisanship is when one person lambasts and denigrates another's opinion because they aren't of the same political school of thought. I think you and denton both miss the point of what she was saying because in essence it wasn't about economics or politics. But then who am I, democratic lib that I am, to have an opinion or disagree with those who think they know everything?
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:42 PM
September 28, 2011 5:49 PM - Biff Champion
Wow, our old friend is now spewing his hate in the Brooklyn Paper comments. His spelling skills haven't seemed to improve:

PropJoe from Bushwick says:
Linda Steinman is anti-negro. She's a JEW racist pig. Fuch her
Today, 11:11 am

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34/39/dtg_luckylous_2011_9_30_bk.html
September 28, 2011 5:52 PM - DeadCatBounce
"But then who am I, democratic lib that I am, to have an opinion or disagree with those who think they know everything?"
Apparently one thing you are is a passive/aggressive.
September 28, 2011 5:53 PM - bxgrl
wow, biff. And they let that stand?
September 28, 2011 5:53 PM - bxgrl
dcb- and one thing you're not- smart enough to know who I am.
Edited at September 28, 2011 5:53 PM
September 28, 2011 5:54 PM - Biff Champion
bxgrl, yes. He had a couple of subsequent posts too.
September 28, 2011 5:55 PM - bxgrl
I see he is just as much a stupid schmuck as he ever was. I can't believe they don't delete those.
September 28, 2011 5:56 PM - DeadCatBounce
Just reacting to what you said in your post.
September 28, 2011 5:57 PM - Biff Champion
Some more gems in the thread...I love the apology:

PropJoe from Bushwick says:
Linda Steinman, that fat racist pig, why she have to bring chicken wings & violence into the mix. She's a crook jew lawyer and a fat anti-negro racist.
Today, 11:53 am

PropJoe from Bushwick says:
My apologies. I have the wrong Linda Steinman from the article. They are 2 different people. Please forgive
Today, 11:56 am
September 28, 2011 5:57 PM - bxgrl
No you're not. You're simply trying to insult me. It was unnecessary- go fuck off.
September 28, 2011 5:59 PM - DeadCatBounce
Bxgrl, you have crossed way over the personal attack line.
September 28, 2011 6:00 PM - bxgrl
Like where? But I will here- now you're just being a jerk. Go fuck off.
September 28, 2011 6:02 PM - bxgrl
And funny, isn't it, when dave called me obstuse and made several other personally nasty comments, you had nothing to say? what a hypocrite.
September 28, 2011 6:02 PM - DeadCatBounce
Your behavior has become abusive, Bxgrl. I will not sink to the same level.
You have no special right to insult me or tell me to go fuck off.
Edited at September 28, 2011 6:02 PM
September 28, 2011 6:03 PM - denton
'I think you and denton both miss the point of what she was saying because in essence it wasn't about economics or politics.'

I missed her point? I don't think so. Her point was that rich people should pay more taxes. I agree, but she went after a very bad example of rich people. If tax policy is not about economics, I don't know what is.
September 28, 2011 6:05 PM - Legion
Happy New Year to all the observant
and even those not so observant.
September 28, 2011 6:05 PM - DeadCatBounce
Denton, I thought your point regarding the factory owner was very well taken.
September 28, 2011 6:06 PM - bxgrl
"Your behavior has become abusive, Bxgrl. I will not sink to the same level.
You have no special right to insult me or tell me to go fuck off."

Don't start no shit, and there won't be no shit. My behavior doesn't compare to you attacking me out of the blue. SO again, g.f.y. We're done.
September 28, 2011 6:07 PM - Donatella
It is really something to go through an OT. I went to FL early this am and after settling in here started to read the comments but they were all over the place and so many. Don't even know where to start. I guess I thought it was interesting the discussion about European "quality of life", whatever that means. We are used to a lot of freedoms and cheap goods and services here that do not exist there, to make a generalization. And about Japan? Oh God. There are lovely, really lovely things about Japan. There is a sense of intimacy in restaurants, stores, a cultivated aesthetic sense which informs every aspect of life, which is interesting and really gorgeous. But in terms of buying power (that is only one aspect of quality of life) forget it. I lived in a tiny Japanese style apartment, a hole really. My cousin saw it and was trying to say something polite about it. When my Japanese friends saw it, they said "all this space? Just for YOU?". A family of 4 had lived in it before me.
September 28, 2011 6:09 PM - bxgrl
Denton- I think her main point was the idea of why people should pay taxes and paying it forward for the future. I read a report that says kids coming out of college today will have a terrible time finding jobs and their future looks pretty bleak. I think it was more of a philosophical stance, and truthfully, I didn't read the entire speech. i was reacting to this particular quote.
September 28, 2011 6:10 PM - Legion
Hi donatella,
do you bring a laptop with you when traveling?
September 28, 2011 6:11 PM - bxgrl
Dona- visiting your folks?
September 28, 2011 6:12 PM - denton
"There is a sense of intimacy in restaurants"

lol dona. Your intimacy is my claustrophobia.


September 28, 2011 6:20 PM - MontroseMorris
Denton, you know I love ya, but I do think you missed her point. Since none of us were there to hear the whole thing, and some of us are creating an entire mindset and philosophy out of a small excerpt of her speech, there is much ado on the right side of this discussion, about nothing. All she is really saying is pay it forward. PERHAPS she used the analogy of the factory because it's easy to see how a factory uses the roads, rails, and everything else she said. Much easier than using a hedge fund, or some other kind of business that may not produce a physical product. I hardly think she was insulting factory owners, or ragging on American entrepreneurial spirit, or anything else. To listen to the vitriol spewed against her comments, you'd think she threw up on the flag and shot a bald eagle or something. "Stupid, nut job, moron" etc, etc. I mean, really. It's possible to totally disagree with her without acting like she committed high treason. This would have been a much more interesting, and pleasant discussion had that happened.
September 28, 2011 6:24 PM - DeadCatBounce
MM, I do not remember Denton calling her any of those things.
September 28, 2011 6:35 PM - MontroseMorris
I didn't say he did. His comments came under the "etc, etc". He called her remarks a "dumbass rant". I disagree, that's all.
Edited at September 28, 2011 6:35 PM
September 28, 2011 6:43 PM - denton
MM, her entire rant is on youtube, and in fact I watched it, and even more to the point, I stated that _before_ she went off on this factory issue, her remarks on the deficit were fair and reasonable. I didn't miss the point, I just have an issue with her analogy, which is a poor one.

I did say I think she's hot tho :-)


Edited at September 28, 2011 6:43 PM
September 28, 2011 6:46 PM - bxgrl
Denton- what analogy would you have used?
Edited at September 28, 2011 6:46 PM
September 28, 2011 6:48 PM - DeadCatBounce
What impressed me about Denton's comment was that he showed an admirable flexibility in his thinking. I also think he made a well reasoned and insightful point, and raised the overall standard of our dialogue.
Peace.


Edited at September 28, 2011 6:48 PM
September 28, 2011 6:51 PM - dibs
Kindle Fire...get it????
September 28, 2011 6:54 PM - DeadCatBounce
Kindle Fire...forget it.
September 28, 2011 6:57 PM - dibs
I didn't know you were the be all and end all of things tech, DCB.

reality is this will take market share unlike all the others and AMZN will continue to go up on retail buying. They will not however, make any money on it
Edited at September 28, 2011 6:57 PM
September 28, 2011 6:59 PM - bxgrl
Why do you think that, dave? Are they underpricing so they can get business away from Apple?
September 28, 2011 7:02 PM - DeadCatBounce
Now you know.
Seriously, I do not think this device will be an ipad killer.
Pretty similar to the Barnes & Noble Color Nook.
The other Kindles they announced look encouraging, though.
September 28, 2011 7:09 PM - minard lafever
I don't know about the rest of you perdidos pateticos, but I had a hard day at work.
I'm home now, with my cocktail, waiting for dinner and all I want to hear is
Edited at September 28, 2011 7:09 PM
September 28, 2011 7:10 PM - dibs
I didn't say "iPad killer" That's a whole different ball game. I said they will take share, big difference.

bxgrl, the analysts have already taken it apart and costed it out...they cannot make $$ on the hardware. Whether they will on software or data will be different.
Edited at September 28, 2011 7:10 PM
September 28, 2011 7:11 PM - denton
I would have used the analogy of Cindy McCain. Check out exactly how and where she gets her money.
September 28, 2011 7:13 PM - denton
Amazon hoping to make money on content. They sell the kindle at a loss also. It's up in the air as to how, but good to have more choices in the market.
September 28, 2011 7:14 PM - Deleted
Got to admire apple. They're great at inventing shit no one needs, making everyone want it, and keeping a stranglehold on the market as competitors release cheaper, superior products.

Dibs - thanks for the article. I think the best thing I could do to quit smoking is not read any of your political comments ;)
September 28, 2011 7:15 PM - Donatella
Hi, just had dinner. Yep, visiting folks. Things ok down here; I never thought my parents would get old. That only happened to people who didn't exercise, have an active social life or read books. But they are in a good groove, doing better. And at 89, I guess they are allowed to be old. And yes, I do have my computer because I have some work to do. Like reading the OT. ha.

"Your intimacy is my claustraphobia". ha, Denton. That's what is so funny about the discussion of quality of life. Sure there is the matter of purchasing power, the size of your house and your salary. But that is only part of what makes the quality of life. Your intimate Swiss village makes me want to put a gun to my head. What makes a quality of life? Having warm social relationships, a close family, a good education, an opportunity to do meaningful work.....to what extent do we measure that? Do we measure a quality of life by purely materialistic standards?
Edited at September 28, 2011 7:15 PM
September 28, 2011 7:20 PM - denton
I'm with ya, dona. Lot of things involved. If we all agreed on what they were, we'd all want to live there, and then we couldn;t afford to!
Edited at September 28, 2011 7:20 PM
September 28, 2011 7:22 PM - bxgrl
Dona- I think in this country we do measure it by materialistic standards to a large degree. When you have pastors telling you Jesus will reward you with wealth if you follow their teachings ...well, it blurs the line.
September 28, 2011 7:31 PM - Donatella
I think there are some screwy pastors out there, Bxgrl. And if we allow ourselves to define life by only money and stuff, we are screwed. Or status. Or our ability to be the most productive (what about when we get sick?). Sure we need to take care of ourselves and contribute to society, but if anything is happening from the wrenching world economic chaos is that maybe we get to disconnect the ultimate meaning of life and our value as human beings as distinct from our net worth.
September 28, 2011 7:32 PM - Donatella
Well, off for a walk with my mother. See ya later.
September 28, 2011 7:46 PM - denton
Reverend Ike was the man!
September 28, 2011 8:00 PM - bxgrl
"Sure we need to take care of ourselves and contribute to society, but if anything is happening from the wrenching world economic chaos is that maybe we get to disconnect the ultimate meaning of life and our value as human beings as distinct from our net worth."

Amen, Dona. :)
Edited at September 28, 2011 8:00 PM
September 28, 2011 8:10 PM - sixyearsandcounting
Hey folks, wow, lots of stuff to read today...you people never fail me! Props to Biff for working my favorite band in middle school (Whitesnake) into the punfest! While I was on the F-train this group of three coat-and-tie guys and a power-suit-wearing girl get on, all with lavender shirts. The girl was complaining that guys watch too much porn and one guy objected that it's biologically impossible to watch porn for more than four minutes, and thus you can only watch porn for 24 minutes per week. Obviously he's not very good at math, and some other things too.
September 28, 2011 8:33 PM - etson
A one & done kinda guy clearly. Maybe he needs a day off to recharge as well?
September 28, 2011 8:41 PM - etson
I agree with disconnecting quality of life from net worth. I've been to most of the places that score well on 'livability' (live in one now, which is OK but nuthin special. Kinda like Queens if the rest of NYC wasn't there) and they tend towards the dull. Also most are sustained economically by large natural resource bases relative to their population.
That said, really don't think central govt has much business trying to enhance / enforce some nebulous view of 'quality of life' beyond basic security and some infrastructure, and many attempts to do so are likely to have disastrous unintended consequences. In other words an individual or family's quality of life is largely their own responsibility / choice.
September 28, 2011 8:43 PM - sixyearsandcounting
Ed Koch endorses Obama for reelection because now he's satisfied that Obama supports Israel. What a tool:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/koch-endorses-obama/?src=me&ref=nyregion
September 28, 2011 8:49 PM - bxgrl
6 years- you realize that only now?
September 28, 2011 8:56 PM - etson
All it took to buy him off was an invitation to a drinks party??
Don't think the Dems lost that election b/c of Koch. Choosing a candidate with a short mustache and starey eyes probably wasn't a good idea on their part, given the consistuency.
September 28, 2011 8:56 PM - etson
oops constituency
September 28, 2011 8:58 PM - sixyearsandcounting
Ha! I guess I realized that, but that just really brought it out for me. All of the things he says Obama is doing to help Israel are things Obama was doing *before* the Congressional election. Like most other politicians, Koch has no concern for the truth and just wants to throw his weight around and make himself relevant. I'm glad I wasn't here when he was mayor.
September 28, 2011 9:02 PM - rf
The Church apparently noticed Berlusconi:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/29/world/europe/italian-church-criticizes-licentious-conduct-of-the-elites.html
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:02 PM
September 28, 2011 9:07 PM - etson
Who is your avatar sixyears?
Looking at it & thinking "A-Rod let himself go a bit" but know it's not him really.
Edited at September 28, 2011 9:07 PM
September 28, 2011 9:17 PM - sixyearsandcounting
Etson - jester figured it out last week...think of my region of interest and an important (if obscure) recent historical figure. Some might call him an arsonist, but that would be off the mark.
September 28, 2011 9:59 PM - Donatella
Six years, I got it. Mohamed Bouazizi, the man who by immolating himself in Tunisia, set off Arab Spring!
September 28, 2011 10:06 PM - etson
Oh, vaguely remember something about that, Kinda followed Arab Spring but not into the details.
Self-immolation is extreme but I'm afraid my stereotype of the Middle East (incl Israel) is that people are rather excitable there.

Been listening to old ravey tunes from when I was 15-17 on youtube most of the night. Off to bed soon.
September 28, 2011 10:08 PM - etson
First thing I thought of when I saw self immolation was this story (not quite the same thing)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/8783929/Irish-pensioner-died-of-spontaneous-human-combustion.html
September 28, 2011 10:10 PM - Deleted
Ed Koch was a great mayor. Not as good as Giuliani, but better than blowhard Bloomberg.

BTW: I'm not sure if folks are referring to my post about Europe, but I never used the words "net worth" or "quality of life". My post was about the huge downsides of an overwheening nanny state in which initiative and innovation are suffocated to death in the name of economic "security". Knowing a person who has a Ph.D in fiber optics and now manages a clothing store because of the death of the industry there is a startling image.
September 28, 2011 10:15 PM - etson
Think some folks on the site have a romanticized idea of Europe b/c they went there a couple of times on vacation & like the architecture benson.
Some Europeans probably have the same view of NYC / the US. I wouldn't be able to comment on that b/c I'm British, not European.

Edited at September 28, 2011 10:15 PM
September 28, 2011 10:17 PM - Deleted
"Think some folks on the site have a romanticized idea of Europe b/c they went there a couple of times on vacation & like the architecture benson."

Ya think?

Exactly so.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:17 PM
September 28, 2011 10:23 PM - etson
Btw, I know I have mentioned before (and you may know it) but I strongly recommend:
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/
as a source for all kinds of stuff. Thoughtful right leaning political analysis and fun stuff about books, gadgets, law et al as well. Mostly via links to all kinds of sources.

Think you would love it, although I warn you: will give you a lot of fodder for online rants.




Edited at September 28, 2011 10:23 PM
September 28, 2011 10:27 PM - Deleted
Etson;

One of my favorite analysts write for pajamas media: Victor David Hanson. You probably know him. If not, what I especially like about him is that his specialty is actually classical Greek and Roman civilization, and he often correlates events of our day to lessons from that time. A modern-day Gibbons, if you will.

That's it for me. Good night.
Edited at September 28, 2011 10:27 PM
September 28, 2011 10:28 PM - Arkady
I haven't read it yet but I'm really looking forward to The Swerve by Stephen Greenblatt. It, too, sounds as if it'll be lots of fodder.
September 28, 2011 10:32 PM - etson
Yes, Glenn Reynolds who writes Instapundit I think is a partner in pajamas media & links to VDH a lot. I also like VDH's classical perspective, think he's a professor at one of the California state universities, no?
Glenn Reynolds' real life job is as a law professor at U of Tennessee in Knoxville ( & he is a Yale alum).

Just more dumb redneck righties!



September 28, 2011 10:44 PM - etson
Just googled it Arkady. Sounds interesting.
Dona and I have been talking about Radical Orthodoxy, which sees the start of the drift into modern materialism somewhat earlier (Duns Scotus). I am not a medievalist, but personally am skeptical about theories that imply human nature changed much at one or more points in history.

This is what I just read in case I misinterpreted:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/17a83246-d876-11e0-8f0a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1ZIzW81Yw
September 28, 2011 11:18 PM - Arkady
Slightly different emphases in that from this:
http://tinyurl.com/4294mq4
Your review wouldn't've tempted me to buy the book, for sure.

September 28, 2011 11:48 PM - sixyearsandcounting
Very good, Donatella! Proof that an ordinary, unheralded person from a peripheral town can change world history.

VDH is at Cal State Fresno and has great insights about academia and cultural elitism in the US. That said, I find his analyses of international affairs (no homo or hetero) totally off the mark. Good night!
October 6, 2011 9:14 AM - CGar
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